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Thread: Question about repairing pedal of pump organ

  1. #1
    ppp Pianississmo Patrick Huang's Avatar
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    Question about repairing pedal of pump organ

    Hi,

    I own an antique Kimbell pump organ, which is in a good working condition except for one pedal defunctioned.

    After removing the cover plate in front of pedal, seems like the metal support between the pedal belt and the pump was missing. It looks like a Y-shaped slingshot bent and bonded by two iron sheets (please check the attach photo).

    Would like to know that, are there any online shop that I could buy this item and repair by myself? Or do you have any other useful ideas?

    By the way, my physical location is Worcester, MA 01609, possibly there are organ shops / repair technicians that I could find or buy that item from them...?

    Thank you so much in advance for all of your kind recommendations!

    Patrick

    QQ图片20180625103904.jpg

  2. #2
    ff Fortissimo Organfella's Avatar
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    Hi Patrick and welcome to the Forum.

    You are probably referring to the return spring which is a blade in the shape of a Y. The picture is not clear but if you should look at the left pedal assembly you will find its opposite number. These springs are normally just wedged in place and easy to remove for a sample. A good engineering shop could help there if you show them the sample.

    Good luck and please let us know how you get on.

    Nico
    "Don't make war, make music!" Hammonds, Lowreys, Yamaha's, Gulbransens, Baldwin, Technics, Johannus. Reed organs. Details on request...

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    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    Hi, Patrick, and indeed welcome. Cool beans - I have a Kimball, too. Mine is a 1899 mirrored parlor with no options.

    You could try this company for the bellows springs.

    http://www.stevespianoservice.com/On...rgan-parts.htm

    If that won't work, one of our more experienced reed organ folks will probably have suggestions for a source.

    Look at the wooden cross-member above the pedals and see if the bottom of the wood where it's notched for the V-spring has broken out. The notches are just to the outside of the wooden rollers. If that breaks loose, the V-spring can fall straight down to the floor inside the organ.

    This board on mine had cracked/broken loose at the original slot, and the grippy points had been repositioned a few times to compensate. I made the bottom of the board stiffer with Gorilla brand super glue applied QUICKLY with a cotton swab, and then I used what was left of the original slot. I would take the top off and lay the organ down before doing it the same way again.

    Mine also had the bellows straps repaired with blue-jeans-like denim attached by a heavy-duty stapler when I got it.

    Also, my famous Kimball thread linked below may be helpful.
    Last edited by Silken Path; 06-26-2018 at 07:52 AM.
    -- I'm Lamar - 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
    -- Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C organ donor
    -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
    -- 1899 Kimball reed organ (forum thread)
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  4. #4
    ff Fortissimo SubBase's Avatar
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    I notice that the leather flap valve is missing from the right side feeder bellows. This renders it useless for moving air. If one has crumbled and fallen off, they all need replacing.

  5. #5
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    Wow. Good catch, Casey. Forest for the trees... Patrick, these folks

    http://www.arndtorgansupply.com/

    are wonderful people and will sell the leather strips for the flaps without having to buy the steer. Also, you may be able to look in the holes with your flashlight to see if the other set of flaps are there. (I haven't tried that.)
    -- I'm Lamar - 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
    -- Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C organ donor
    -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
    -- 1899 Kimball reed organ (forum thread)
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  6. #6
    ppp Pianississmo Patrick Huang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silken Path View Post
    Hi, Patrick, and indeed welcome. Cool beans - I have a Kimball, too. Mine is a 1899 mirrored parlor with no options.

    You could try this company for the bellows springs.

    http://www.stevespianoservice.com/On...rgan-parts.htm

    If that won't work, one of our more experienced reed organ folks will probably have suggestions for a source.

    Look at the wooden cross-member above the pedals and see if the bottom of the wood where it's notched for the V-spring has broken out. The notches are just to the outside of the wooden rollers. If that breaks loose, the V-spring can fall straight down to the floor inside the organ.

    This board on mine had cracked/broken loose at the original slot, and the grippy points had been repositioned a few times to compensate. I made the bottom of the board stiffer with Gorilla brand super glue applied QUICKLY with a cotton swab, and then I used what was left of the original slot. I would take the top off and lay the organ down before doing it the same way again.

    Mine also had the bellows straps repaired with blue-jeans-like denim attached by a heavy-duty stapler when I got it.

    Also, my famous Kimball thread linked below may be helpful.
    Hi Lamar,

    Thanks so much for your warm welcome and kind response!

    The website you've provided is truly useful! I believe this shop would provide the correct items.

    However, I am too ignorant to pump organs and still not understand something... Would like to know that, is the term "bellow spring" refer to the Y-shape return spring that I've mentioned? From the picture at your provided website, bellow spring (451314) looks like a long plastic tube, but not something Y-shaped. Also, seems like none of the items shown in that picture looks Y-shape, or something similar to the shape I was looking for...

    Also, since the website mentioned both size and pressure, I think I could try to measure the dimension (although there is only one figure given e.g. 8'' long and I'm very unfamiliar to imperial units), but what tool that I could use to measure the lbs of pressure?

    Apologise for this lengthy questions as a complete beginner... hopefully you won't feel these questions stupid or annoying...

    Appreciates again!
    Patrick

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SubBase View Post
    I notice that the leather flap valve is missing from the right side feeder bellows. This renders it useless for moving air. If one has crumbled and fallen off, they all need replacing.
    Hi Casey,

    Thank you for pointing out! Yes, the valve flap is indeed missing. I was initially thinking that it's a comparatively minor issue so didn't point it out in this post.

    But as you said, this is also a key problem and need to be repaired properly. I will buy the leather strips from the shops posted by Lamar, would like to know that, do you have any suggestions about putting the leather strips on those holes - can I directly put it on by using some kind of glues?

    Cheers,
    Patrick

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Organfella View Post
    Hi Patrick and welcome to the Forum.

    You are probably referring to the return spring which is a blade in the shape of a Y. The picture is not clear but if you should look at the left pedal assembly you will find its opposite number. These springs are normally just wedged in place and easy to remove for a sample. A good engineering shop could help there if you show them the sample.

    Good luck and please let us know how you get on.

    Nico
    Hi Nico,

    Thank you so much for your warm welcome and kind guidance!

    Yes it should be the return spring, previously I don't know this term due to my limitation to English language and knowledge of organ...

    I am currently outside for vacation, but will try to remove it (any hints for avoiding breakage?) and take it to any engineering shop after I return home. Will definitely update once I have any progress.

    Cheers,
    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick Huang; 06-29-2018 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #7
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    I think your bellow spring will be one of these:

    Reed Organ and Player Piano Bellows Springs-
    Outward pressure-- If in doubt, replace them.
    May come with ring attached to make installation easier.
    8 lb. Thrust- 8" long- 451314 in the graphic SH8008 $ 12.90
    6 lb. Thrust- 6" long- 451314 in the graphic SO206 $ 35.75
    10 lb. Thrust- 12" long- 451314 in the graphic SO210 $ 43.95
    20 lb. Thrust- 12" long- 451314 in the graphic SO220 $ 54.75
    30 lb. Thrust- 12" long- 451314 in the graphic SO230 $ 55.95

    The question is... 10, 20, or 30 lbs. Casey or Nico may know. Not me!

    I see they have have the flap material precut, too.

    Bellows Valve Flap- Leather- Pair
    2-1/4 inches wide by 14 inches long DA440 $ 14.80 / pair
    2-3/4 inches wide by15 inches long DA441 $ 16.50 / pair
    -- I'm Lamar - 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
    -- Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C organ donor
    -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
    -- 1899 Kimball reed organ (forum thread)
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  8. #8
    ff Fortissimo SubBase's Avatar
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    Salvaged spring set on ebay, the larger ones go inside the reservoir bellows, the smaller are return springs for the pumpers.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-4-St...wAAOSw7P5bLoRE

    The flap valves get attached with upholstery tacks, 3/8" long.

  9. #9
    ppp Pianississmo Patrick Huang's Avatar
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    Thank you again Lamar,

    I am planning to buy the bellow springs. But according to item number it should be 451314, but the corresponding graph looks like this:

    123.png

    This completely confused me since my bellow spring looks like a Y-shaped metal thing, but the graph just looks like a long rubber tube.

    Did I mistaken anything?

  10. #10
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    Hi, Patrick - I think it is the V-shaped metal thing, but it has a "hog-ring" holding it closed for shipping. Look closely and you can see the barbs sticking out of the ring. At least that's what I THINK it is.

    But - did you look at the ones on eBay that Casey mentioned? $21.98 is the buy-it-now price for all four and it has 17 days left. He's also showing $8.15 for economy shipping. I think I'd go with that.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-4-St...oRE&rmvSB=true
    -- I'm Lamar - 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
    -- Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C organ donor
    -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
    -- 1899 Kimball reed organ (forum thread)
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

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