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Thread: How to identify reeds

  1. #21
    ff Fortissimo SubBase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    Here you go left (bass end) to right; 1. Principal 2. Sub Bass 3. Diapason 4. Dulcet 5. Bass Coupler 6. Diapason Forte 7. Vox Humana 8. Flute Forte 9. Treble Coupler 10. Echo Horn 11. Melodia 12. Cello 13. Flute. If it's helpful here is a pic of the reed board.

    As a matter of interest the vox humana mechanism is physically absent. There is just a ghost shadow where it was mounted. If I can't find one to buy at a reasonable price I am going to make one and guess it would be the round style.
    I thought it might have a small-scale sub bass and a treble 16ft stop (cello)and I was right. Your miss-matched bass reeds are the sub bass, and they do not commence with the low f, but the low c above f. You can see this on the upper rear reed cell row.

  2. #22
    ppp Pianississmo cdm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubBase View Post
    I thought it might have a small-scale sub bass and a treble 16ft stop (cello)and I was right. Your miss-matched bass reeds are the sub bass, and they do not commence with the low f, but the low c above f. You can see this on the upper rear reed cell row.
    SubBase; as a neophyte I do not know what this means with respect to making these reed banks correct or right. Can you give me a little guidance?

    Thanks.

  3. #23
    ppp Pianississmo cdm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silken Path View Post
    Well, I certainly don't know. I looked through all the Kimballs at rsoc, and not a single soul pictured theirs with the cover down.

    #205629 near the bottom of that list is mine. It's actually a 1899 model, and the entry and membership number belonged to the previous owner. I saw the ad for that organ here on the forum. The guy's dog really liked me, too, but I suspect that it liked everybody.
    Look closely at #4782. I believe it is the same cabinet as my organ down to the scroll work. Although the key cover is up you can just see the end of the 'arch' peeking out. Could be model specific to just that one cabinet design (?). Anyway, used more than once and not just an anomaly on my unit.

  4. #24
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    Good spottin'. Beautiful organ there, that one. I think I saw a chapel model with that arch somewhere on YouTube, but I haven't found it since... On my two reed set model, the bass reeds on the celeste (front) side are smaller/shorter than the same notes on the the back side. I think it's so the celeste/principal won't overwhelm the main set.
    -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
    -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
    -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
    -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  5. #25
    ppp Pianississmo cdm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silken Path View Post
    Good spottin'. Beautiful organ there, that one. I think I saw a chapel model with that arch somewhere on YouTube, but I haven't found it since... On my two reed set model, the bass reeds on the celeste (front) side are smaller/shorter than the same notes on the the back side. I think it's so the celeste/principal won't overwhelm the main set.
    This whole sub bass thing has me very confused. The upper, rear, bass reed cells are the ones I'm looking at. This is where the 'odd ball' reeds come from. There is a specific mute for these 17 cells that is connected to the Sub Bass stop pull. That's my first point of confusion; why 17? The last (lowest) note, (#62 in my progressive counting system) as I found it is a number 1 reed; so an F I assume. I does not appear to be particularly bass judging by it's length and the beef of it's reed. The other reeds in this set appear to be from different octaves. Now, SubBass (the forum member not to be confused with the stop) thinks this should be a low C below F. So the overriding question; what should these 17 reeds be starting with the #62 position, bassest end and working up.

    I am working on the pallets now so not that far from being able to put wind across the reeds. I suspect however that this questionable group is going to resemble a bagpipe rather than an organ. I hope somebody has seen this Kimball wind chest before and can perhaps shed some light.
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  6. #26
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    I think the interpretation is that with the subbass stop pulled, you could have seen what keys/notes link to/activate each subbase reed. Casey is wonderful about providing a second-level explanation if the first one leaves us cross-eyed.
    -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
    -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
    -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
    -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  7. #27
    ff Fortissimo SubBase's Avatar
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    You re-upped the photo i was referring to, that much is good, we are communicating.
    See where the reed cells of the second story do not extend down to the lowest notes like in the first story? That is because your sub bass reeds begin on the c above the low f. (above in the sense of where they fall on the musical staff).
    These are narrow/small sub bass reeds, and will not be so easy to replace. Your best bet would be a Beckwith Organ's Bourdon stop, I think those would match.
    Last edited by SubBase; 06-19-2018 at 01:36 PM.

  8. #28
    ppp Pianississmo cdm's Avatar
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    SubBass;

    Now I understand the octave difference that you point out in the middle rank. Does this mean that the F (#1) reed in the first or bass-most position in the second rank should be a low C or do you think the F is correct? I suppose I can wait til I get it back together and see what key activates it (?).

    When you say these will be narrow/small sub bass reeds I assume that means the reeds currently installed are not sub bass but just standard reeds since they are the same width as all other reeds in the machine (all of the reed cells are the same dimension for width) and that I need to look for smaller than usual sub bass reeds ... Am I seeing this right? I have noted the Beckwith Bourdon stop.

    It also seems odd that the mute activated by the stop pull for this sub bass covers 17 reeds (all of the larger openings). I note that all the sub bass reed sets I can find are 13 reeds. Any idea why this one is 17?

    Bear with me here; I am trying to understand this and really appreciate the help. One way or the other this instrument is going to play again ...

  9. #29
    ff Fortissimo SubBase's Avatar
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    I'm happy we are making progress towards understanding.
    The reason for the 17 note (so-called) sub bass, is so that it creates an unbroken 16ft stop when used with the 16ft pitch Cello (or ?) rank that continue up in the same line of reed cells.
    If this were a costlier organ, the builder would have supplied the lowest 7 reeds for a 24 note stop. And it would have also had a proper (big, rumbling, large scale) sub bass. But here we are.
    FWIW, a few notable chapel models by Estey have 17 note sub basses. Here a looong video where I demonstrate such an organ. https://youtu.be/Yj6PvRYBD0o feel no obligation to watch it.
    Casey

  10. #30
    ppp Pianississmo cdm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubBase View Post
    I'm happy we are making progress towards understanding.
    The reason for the 17 note (so-called) sub bass, is so that it creates an unbroken 16ft stop when used with the 16ft pitch Cello (or ?) rank that continue up in the same line of reed cells.
    If this were a costlier organ, the builder would have supplied the lowest 7 reeds for a 24 note stop. And it would have also had a proper (big, rumbling, large scale) sub bass. But here we are.
    FWIW, a few notable chapel models by Estey have 17 note sub basses. Here a looong video where I demonstrate such an organ. https://youtu.be/Yj6PvRYBD0o feel no obligation to watch it.
    Casey
    Thank you. I think I have enough of a grasp on this now to carry on in less of a fog. I am going to not do anything about reeds for the time being and work on getting to the point of moving wind through the instrument. The video is quite good by the way particularly for a novice and non-musician. It lends clarity to the relationship of the stop pulls to the internal mechanism.

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