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Thread: Name of This Piece?

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    ppp Pianississmo Ron32288's Avatar
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    Name of This Piece?

    https://youtu.be/Tc0U38iGaFw
    It starts at 2:56. I feel like I have this in one of the many books I own but I need to know the name of it.
    Home: Wurlitzer 4573 and an Allen 301-3c

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    ppp Pianississmo Art75's Avatar
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    Suite Gothique by Léon Boëllmann: Priere a Notre Dame
    Aeolian-Hammond BA Player organ
    Roland C-330

  3. #3
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art75 View Post
    Suite Gothique by Léon Boëllmann: Priere a Notre Dame
    Absolutely correct. I've been wanting to play that movement in performance, but haven't had the chance yet. Everyone either wants the 1st movement for Halloween, or the 4th movement for a showy performance (the Toccata with the melody in the pedals). Somehow the middle two movements seem to get left out.

    BTW, in viewing the video, I would consider adding vibrato/tremulant to whatever solo stop you use. It doesn't appear to be indicated in any of the versions I found on IMSLP (imslp.org), but IMHO the tremulant would be appropriate.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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    ppp Pianississmo cantor828's Avatar
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    +1 to the tremulant on the solo; fantastic when you get to the climax of the middle section!

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    mp Mezzo-Piano Peterboroughdiapason's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by myorgan View Post

    BTW, in viewing the video, I would consider adding vibrato/tremulant to whatever solo stop you use. It doesn't appear to be indicated in any of the versions I found on IMSLP (imslp.org), but IMHO the tremulant would be appropriate.

    Michael
    Personally I would strongly advise NOT using the tremulant or a solo stop. I think this piece, which I love, is already on the verge of being saccharine and any such registration would, for me, tip it over the edge into an abyss of cloying nausea!

    Much better to use the composer's registration: Both hands on strings (i.e. sharp French ones). Failing suitable strings I would use strings and flute, or flute and diapason or string stop. Dynamics achieved by using the swell box only. For the middle section: both hands on Great flute coupled to the swell.

    Here is a link to a performance: not sure what registration is used but it gives the right effect, I think. I'm sure the speed is right, though I don't play it so slowly. Nor do I make such a contrast in tempo for the middle section. Surprisingly there is a misprint in the pedal part 7 bars from the end. You can see the composer's registrations in the accompanying score.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99XcIxbNyJI

    By the way, Michael, I get the Halloween comment when I play the Toccata rather than the 1st movement.

  6. #6
    ff Fortissimo Havoc's Avatar
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    Played it so long ago, think it was before I understood how to play organ. Think it was a bit faster but the registration holds for me as well. Your remark is spot on, this is sooooo kitschy that adding a tremulant makes it a pastiche.

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    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterboroughdiapason View Post
    Personally I would strongly advise NOT using the tremulant or a solo stop. I think this piece, which I love, is already on the verge of being saccharine and any such registration would, for me, tip it over the edge into an abyss of cloying nausea!
    Rats, he's onto me! On a serious note, while it is not indicated, wouldn't the French have ever done that? I'm thinking of Franck's Prélude, Fugue et Variation, Op.18 and the Hautbois 8' used in two of the movements. I seem to remember adding Tremulant in college. I'm going to have to go back to those ancient reel-to-reel recordings and see what I actually used. Hmmmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterboroughdiapason View Post
    Much better to use the composer's registration: Both hands on strings (i.e. sharp French ones). Failing suitable strings I would use strings and flute, or flute and diapason or string stop. Dynamics achieved by using the swell box only. For the middle section: both hands on Great flute coupled to the swell.
    I agree wholeheartedly. The French were always so particular with their registrations, so it is certainly better to stick with what is provided--if you have it. Alternately, I would consider using a Flute Celeste because it will cause that melody to come out above everything else without necessarily making it louder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterboroughdiapason View Post
    I'm sure the speed is right, though I don't play it so slowly. Nor do I make such a contrast in tempo for the middle section. Surprisingly there is a misprint in the pedal part 7 bars from the end. You can see the composer's registrations in the accompanying score.
    That tempo is quite slow, however, when the performer comes to a rest, I noticed the reverb, and think I agree it is probably correct for the space in which it is played. If the A and A' portions of the piece were played slightly faster, the B section wouldn't stand out in tempo.

    I'm not sure what you mean by a pedal mis-print in that version. The Ab belongs, as does the following C. Is the mis-print that the entire measure would be played on a C? The version that is being used is the one available on IMSLP, and to date, I've not found one with a different pedaling there. Edit: Until just now: http://imslp.org/wiki/Suite_Gothique...lmann%2C_Léon). Kalmus has been known to have their fair share of mistakes. Now I'm wondering which is correct. I guess I'll preview (and erase) one of those that's not in public domain yet so I can check with an OEM version. In college I discovered Bach's BWV-541 G Major also has passages which are off in the Kalmus edition. I had to write them out by hand and paste them on top of the incorrect measures--what a pain! That's the price we pay for cheap music.


    By the way, Michael, I get the Halloween comment when I play the Toccata rather than the 1st movement.
    I had forgotten about that. The last couple of years I've added the Toccata to the Introduction et Chorale when playing for Halloween. Thanks for reminding me.

    Michael


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc View Post
    ...this is sooooo kitschy that adding a tremulant makes it a pastiche.
    What language are you speaking? Must be German.
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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    f Forte regeron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterboroughdiapason View Post
    Surprisingly there is a misprint in the pedal part 7 bars from the end.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99XcIxbNyJI
    I have two different editions - Durand and Ashdown. Both of them have B-flat -- C in the measure in question. The YouTube score has A-flat -- C.

  9. #9
    mp Mezzo-Piano andijah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myorgan View Post
    What language are you speaking? Must be German.
    Oy!

  10. #10
    mp Mezzo-Piano Peterboroughdiapason's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    while it is not indicated, wouldn't the French have ever done that? I'm thinking of Franck's Prélude, Fugue et Variation, Op.18 and the Hautbois 8' used in two of the movements. I seem to remember adding Tremulant in college.

    I wouldn't use the tremulant in Franck, Michael. I don't think French Romantic music calls for it. The solo in the Prelude, Fugue and Variation is for oboe PLUS BOURDON AND FLUTE.. I don't think that sound would be improved by a tremulant.

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