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Thread: Postitive Theater Organ

  1. #1
    ppp Pianississmo Trumpet Mirabilis's Avatar
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    Postitive Theater Organ

    Hi!
    I've been toying with an idea for a while. What if there were a Continuo/Positive organ, but with a tremulant and traditional theatrical stops, essentially being a positive theater organ! Since I am only 12, building it wouldn't be possible. But can anyone more qualified elaborate on this?

    Best,
    Van.

  2. #2
    fff Fortississimo toodles's Avatar
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    If your thought is to make a portable theatre pipe organ, it has been done. Reginald Foorte had a 27 rank portable pipe organ build by Moller for touring--if you can call a 27 ton organ portable. But he did transport it to various venues for concerts. Information about this organ can be found here: http://www.atos.org/FoortMoller

    On a smaller scale, several builders made organs of about 3 ranks, and one of them even build one in a grand piano case--Kilgen, I think. Three ranks, though, doesn't give a lot of variety to the sound.

    But it is hard to build a really full sounding theatre organ in a portable package--the pipes, chest, and blower just take up a lot of space.

  3. #3
    mp Mezzo-Piano VaPipeorgantuner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet Mirabilis View Post
    Hi!
    I've been toying with an idea for a while. What if there were a Continuo/Positive organ, but with a tremulant and traditional theatrical stops, essentially being a positive theater organ! Since I am only 12, building it wouldn't be possible. But can anyone more qualified elaborate on this?

    Best,
    Van.
    there would be many challenges to overcome...scaling pipes for theatre organ sound, higher wind pressures which would make playability a possible issue, chest construction...a LOT of work which would likely yield disappointing results. Perhaps approaching something like the old Moller "portable" which was self contained in a cabinet designed to go thru a 30 inch wide door would be a starting point, but again scaling and voicing for a more theatrical sound...perhpas using higher-than-typical wind pressure for these organ (which were usually on 3.5 inch pressure), a more effective tremulant and an external blower in a sound-proofed box. Even still the cost versus benefits (i.e. the more robust sound of a typical small theatre organ) would possibly not give the desired results for the money spent.

    Rick in VA

  4. #4
    pp Pianissimo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    It’s probably a bit late to post a comment here but I thought people might be interested in reading about a proposal for a mobile grand concert organ by the French organist Jean Guillou.

    It’s difficult to find information on this project since there is not a lot of information on it and plus the links to the webpage such as the one on Jean guillou's website doesn't work.


    So you would probably have to contact Jean Guillou or someone involved in the project like Olivier Latry to find about if this project is still going or just dead in the waters like that 5AT locomotive.

    I’ve added a couple of links below one to mention of it on Jean Guillou's website and another to a random article about it that’s in French because I can’t find any information on this project that is in English.

    http://www.jean-guillou.org/organs.html

    http://www.orgue-en-france.org/proje...-jean-guillou/



    Another portable organ that is also worth mentioning is an instrument designed by Jean-Baptiste Mannot which unlike the other organ this one has become a reality but unfortunately I can’t find much in the way of details of this organ such as the specification and there doesn’t seem to be any videos or recordings of it.


    If you want to find pictures and information on this instrument just type L'orgue du voyage into the search engine.

    Also worth mentioning is an instrument by Giorgio Questa

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyFfzZfpwoc
    Last edited by F Kalbrenner; 01-26-2018 at 01:36 PM.

  5. #5
    pp Pianissimo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    One thing that has been on my mind for a while about the organ is that I feel that what it needs is some sort of game changer.
    The problem is that we're trying to design a portable organ around tonal ideas that we have such as the extension organ.


    These are probably really stupid ideas but the first idea that I came up with a while ago is the idea of an organ pipes that can play more than one note.
    I don’t think this is something that I would recommend applying throughout an instrument but I think for just the bass half such as the pedal division and the bass octave of some of the manual stops such as an 8 foot Principle.
    Bass stops such as the 32 foot, 16 foot and even the pedal division are rather cumbersome but think the problem here isn’t because these pipes are so big but because there are so many of them.
    I don’t recommend reducing the bass half of the instrument down to just one pipe but just a small handful would still be very effective.

    I’m still not sure if this idea would be effective plus I don’t know how exactly this will work.

    I've add some links below to several organs that I'm aware of that do contain this idea.
    https://ohta.org.au/organs/organs/Euroa.html

    https://ohta.org.au/organs/organs/TrinityMelbUni.html

    https://ohta.org.au/organs/organs/Br...StAndrews.html

    The second idea that I have that I so wish would work but chances are it's probably too absence to off the wall to work effectively and that is an organ pipe that can be dynamically expressed without a swell box.
    The reason for this isn’t to replace the swell box (even though that would be great) but to have ranks of pipes that can play either loud or soft. And I also have to say that I find that dynamics are one of the major reasons why people prefer larger organs over small ones.
    I also remember Thomas Heywood once at the end of a concert at St Andrew saying something about how he preferred playing large organs because they’re more expressive.
    I do have some idea as to how this concept will work since I based the idea on something that was experimented on with recorders and according to the article in the link below it did work mildly well.

    http://www.saers.com/recorder/Craig-TuningDevice/

    The final idea that I would like to recommend is paper pipes. This one has been done before but I think for a travelling organ it might be better to use paper rather than metal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asp0TcxYWa8

  6. #6
    pp Pianissimo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    I probably should have mentioned this before but I didn't feel that bothered to but there is also another mobile organ that I remember coming across recently.
    from what I remember translating (because just like with the other organs the websites for it are not in English) I think it's just an extension organ with some digital stops plus the console kind of looks like a re-purposed Johannus organ. But surprisingly there are what I presume are actual recordings of it.

    http://birouste.free.fr/Mobilorgue/d...ion/descr.html

    http://www.modulorgue.com/pieces.html

  7. #7
    p Piano APipeOrganist's Avatar
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    If you are looking for portable there really is no better organ than the 74 rank, 50 stop, three manual organ at the Adelaide Festival Center. The organ is mounted on a hovercraft so that it can be floated back inside the world's largest cupboard when not in use (which is most of the time unfortunately)

  8. #8
    pp Pianissimo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    It’s probably a bit late to post a comment here but I thought people might be interested in reading about a proposal for a mobile grand concert organ by the French organist Jean Guillou.

    It’s difficult to find information on this project since there is not a lot of information on it and plus the links to the webpage such as the one on Jean guillou's website doesn't work.


    So you would probably have to contact Jean Guillou or someone involved in the project like Olivier Latry to find about if this project is still going or just dead in the waters like that 5AT locomotive.
    It's a bit of a supersize to me but I've actually managed to find more information on Dracula's portable concert organ project such as how it works and even the specification.
    I can't say for sure if this information is legit plus it dose look as though it hasn't been updated since the early 2000s.

    http://cdmnet.org/Julian/schemes/ideal/variab.htm

  9. #9
    pp Pianissimo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    Guess what it’s another post from me the only person who seems to post stuff on this thread for strange and disturbing reasons. Now in one of my previous posts I mentioned the existence of a mobile pipe organ called ‘Orgue de voyage’ which was built by Jean-Baptiste Monnot. I originally recommended doing an internet search for pictures and information of his creation but an article popped up recently that tells a back story of his organ so I thought why not post a link since I suspect that some people are probably too lazy to do an internet search.


    The only thing that isn’t mentioned in the article which would have been nice is the specification of the instrument because besides that it’s probably an extension organ I’m still curious as to how such a small organ can have a large console with three keyboards and pedals. Plus it would be nice to actually hear what this organ sounds like.


    I should also mention that much like any of the other articles on this creation it’s all in French so you will have to use something like the Google translator if you can’t read French like me.

    One small detail that I’ve noticed mentioned in this article compared to the previous ones is that (presuming I translated the article correctly) it’s mentioned that the organ contains 700 pipes while in the previous articles it was 300. So I’m curious if Monnot has made some additions to his instrument.


    https://actu.fr/normandie/rouen_7654..._15701623.html

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