The Organ Forum

One of my relatives is getting married later this year.  They have asked me to play for the wedding.  The RC church is actually in my neighborhood - I'm not an organist there.  This would actually be my parish if I did decide to register. 

They are not allowing any "outsiders" to touch the organ or piano.  Mentioning that I play organ every Sunday at another RC church in the city and have a music degree didn't help.  The family does wish me to play and I am willing - this will be my gift to the family.  The couple along with the wedding planner have made several attempts in negotiating with the church secretary. 

They offered to pay the church musician yet have me play - which was also refused.  The response was that it is ok to bring whatever musician the family wish as long as the musicians keep away from church instruments.  "Use the church, just don't touch anything"

So why not employ the church musicians you ask?  The church has CBW III in the pews but the pianist gives mediocre performances of praise band music most of the time. Most people can't even see the tiny words on the overhead projection and don't bother participating.  They use the organ console as stand for the projector. 

The organ is an analog Rodgers 2 manual stop tab, not delicate historical pipes.  I played it once, many years ago.  The piano is a 6 footer - a newer acquisition I have not yet auditioned. 

 
A bit perplexing.  Seems they had a really bad experience in the past with someone using their instruments.

 

 

 

 

Eww.  Sounds like a lot of effort for something almost not worth playing! 

 Are you interacting with the office staff or the clergy?  There's a large difference in that, and the office staff tend to be stubborn, inflexible people when it comes to regulations.  If you go through the clergy or perhaps even the church musicians you might have more luck.

Try to talk to the pastor and explain the situation.  I'm a little nonplussed that people are so paranoid about it, especially in my church (I'm RC).

 

If that doesn't work you may just have to say you can't do it.  That's really unfortunate.

 

I'm personally ashamed of that.  Especially a RODGERS....

 

 

Edit:  You could also ask if they would rather rent an organ to play that they aren't personally responsible for.  Even better, you could show them the bill... 

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'It isn't that difficult. All one has to do is press all the right keys at the right time and the organ plays itself.'
Yeah RIGHT.

You mention a mediocre pianist and go on to say that the organ is used only as a projector stand.  Is it possible that this mediocre pianist is their only staff musician and he/she realizes that he/she is mediocre and is trying to protect his/her position by keeping competent musicians off his/her turf?  Is it further possible that he/she is afraid that is someone actually makes their organ sound good that he/she will really be in deep trouble?

Is this not supposed to be the Christian church?  I don't see much Christian charity and love, if a degree qualified musician is unable to play for a family wedding.  Approach the minister and put your case forward to him.  If they will not allow you to play their instruments, take one along.  What utter stupidity of this church.

Perhaps they've had a bad experience in that past, thats the Church I'm talking about (breaking stuff etc). I won't go into the details of what I've found visiting organists have done to my regular instrument (there's a thread on that) but I can say that such experiences are sadly not a one off - I would give them a good telling off if I knew who these ignorant organists where.

People (and Churches) are always open to money...why not ask the couple to donate some money to the Church Fund (and make sure the clergy know about it). Its amazing what a little cash does to people, they can turn from bitter and nasty  to sugary sweet in no time .  Thats the cynical side of me coming through...

Otherwise, if you need to hire an instrument, most of the Allen and Rodgers dealers will have instruments that they are willing to hire out if you so wish. I know of one couple who hired an Allen to replace the aging the pipe instrument in one Church simply because it was in bad shape and prone to breaking down.

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Currently own:
ALLEN TC-3S (#42904 - 3rd Feb 1971) with Sequential Capture System

Speakers:
x1 Model 100 Gyro Cabinet
x1 Model 105 Cabinet
x3 Model 108 Cabinet

Is this church where your relatives actually attend, or have they just engaged a convenient facility for the wedding?  If it's not their regular church, can you suggest that they consider using another, since they want you to play at the wedding?  Just a suggestion.

David

I would run from that" den of iniquity" as fast as I could, and let the Justice of Peace perform the marriage.  This is the poorest of excuses of Christianity, but it is not the only one apparently.  This is another one of the same deals I ran into when growing up.  Those two women who were so mediocre were so jealous of "their" damned old Hammond that asking to play it for a service was like making an indecent proposal to them.  As someone later told me blame the pastor, and he was against me as much as anything.  Maybe they had special "favors" with him for all I know.  In this denomination the Almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$'s were the main god, and their teachings were about Christ with the most emphasis on their doctrine only.  They were one of those kind if you are not a member with us there is no hope for you in the hereafter except the eternal burning hell.  So, in my understanding I realize it was nothing more than a religious mess rather than true Christianity.  It was a situation which did untold harm to me, and I didn't have the proper guidance at the time to realize that rejection happens in churches.  I have come to the thoughts that by today's standards this mess could be referred to as a cult.

It is amazing how those selfish people were the forerunner's of what matters are today with the same church.  Most are long gone and most no doubt are dead.  I never thought this church could build such a beautiful building, and it houses very little from the old building except the dear old Hammond which has NOT been played for a service in nearly 16-17 years.  Now, attendance is so small that I have been told it is literally shameful for such a large sanctuary.  Now that is how matters happen when a church rejects people.  i think at one time when some remodeling was done in the new building the Hammond's bench served as a stand for the large open Bible as I was told.  Well those fools ought to heed what that Bible teaches them.

 Regardless, to think the organ bench is used for the projector.  It sounds like some offers of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ might change matters with talking or going through other channels.  The lady who plays the piano no doubt is afraid someone will show her up.  Also, remember the organ might not function or play at all anymore.

I have learned in life in more ways than one why people do not attend church.I guess it is just my being plain spoken nowdays, but I just call it when I see it.

 

James

Well, I think it is shameful!  Our beautiful new UMC facility has a new Klais organ and our organist is very open to having others play it.  She will even let me do so, unskilled as I am.  However, so far the only time I have played it was when it was being voiced and the very first--and softest--stop had been voiced.  It was the Dulciana 8' in the Choir and the voicer wanted to hear how the sound penetrated throughout the Sanctuary, so he asked me if I could play--I was the only other person present.  I told him I could play a hymn, so he traveled all around the space while I repeatedly played Finlandia from memory on the quiet Dulciana.  It sounded wonderful!  Apparently he was satisfied that it was not too soft, and proceeded on to voice the rest of the instrument.  I do intend one day to take our organist up on her offer to let me play it again (I was the first church member to play it).  I love that organ!

If any of you are ever in Richardson, Texas (suburb of Dallas), please consider stopping by the First United Methodist Church of Richardson and trying out our Klais!  The church staff has placed the entire control of the instrument in the hands of our organist, so just contact her if you want to give it a try.  Her phone can be found on www.fumcr.com.

David

I had a similar experience to the one described.

My sister was married in a church in South-East London about two years ago and she wished for me to play for the service. The organist there created as many problems as possible for me, even though he was offered payment as well. At the time, I was an assistant at a cathedral here and she had mentioned this, and he obviously thought that I was of some sort of danger to him. Finally, however, everything was secured.

So I went to do some practice on the instrument a couple of days before the wedding. And who should walk in at the start of my practice session and announce that he wished to practice as soon as possible?

I can't explain how incredibly uncomfortable I felt.

Personally, I would always be happy to welcome anyone who wishes to play. I play the organ for my love of it, not as a means to prove myself to others.  

Between possessive, insecure organists and music committees who think an organ is so delicate that it ought to be touched only by someone anointed (= hired by them) you can really begin to think that a church is anything but Christian and generous.

Our organ console is down two steps in a sort of shallow pit. The only person who has ever damaged our organ (and I was a student practising at the time) was a "grand dame" who was arranging flowers (ordering others about) when she stepped backwards and fell onto me and the organ bench managing to break one of the stop knobs off in the process. This somehow became my fault or at least it was so in her mind. But she's dead and I'm not so there you go.

I generally allow guest organists (depending on the circumstances); but almost always require that we have a mini interview first and meet at the console for some get-acquainted pointers.  I have only turned someone away once; and that was because a mortuary was trying to shove them down my throat.  Only once was I disappointed by a guest organist's lack of stewardship.  I do make all guest organist's aware of my rather rigid (draconian?) stewardship expectations; but one we get that out of the way, things go well with a friendly atmosphere.

I was very impressed with a music director/organist from a neighboring RC church (we are also RC) who played a II/20 pipe organ on a weekly basis.  She took one look at the console of our III/72 and said something like:  "I am not up to playing this; I think I had better use the piano."  (She was there to play a funeral.)  Such saintly humility!

I propose a new Buddhist koan:  "What is the sound of $2 million singing?"

telemanr:

Between possessive, insecure organists and music committees who think an organ is so delicate that it ought to be touched only by someone anointed (= hired by them) you can really begin to think that a church is anything but Christian and generous.

Our organ console is down two steps in a sort of shallow pit. The only person who has ever damaged our organ (and I was a student practising at the time) was a "grand dame" who was arranging flowers (ordering others about) when she stepped backwards and fell onto me and the organ bench managing to break one of the stop knobs off in the process. This somehow became my fault or at least it was so in her mind. But she's dead and I'm not so there you go.

 

Goodness me, dead?  That sounds like a serious accident.  As long as she didn't damage the organ too much though.... 

Tenor Trumpet 8':

Regardless, to think the organ bench is used for the projector.  It sounds like some offers of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ might change matters with talking or going through other channels. 


James

Ahh, fellow cynic!

I too mentioned that a dropping a hint about donating to the Church Fund might sway those that a reluctant. Its amazing what how money can change people!

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Currently own:
ALLEN TC-3S (#42904 - 3rd Feb 1971) with Sequential Capture System

Speakers:
x1 Model 100 Gyro Cabinet
x1 Model 105 Cabinet
x3 Model 108 Cabinet

Are you really saying churches are fertile ground for people to buy their way into?  Surely not!

I'd personally refuse to pay a bribe to play any organ in a CHURCH.  I don't care how wonderful it is or what the purpose is, I don't want anything to do with something that requires you to pay for the 'privelege' to play the instrument you've spent years if not decades honing.

 

 I'm a Christian organist, not an businessman without morales, thank you very much.

 I don't mean if they say they charge a fee, I mean an out-and-out bribe of course.
 

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'It isn't that difficult. All one has to do is press all the right keys at the right time and the organ plays itself.'
Yeah RIGHT.