The Organ Forum

I see we've had the obvious "Favourite Hymns" thread already, but how about hymns that you don't like.

I'm talking more about the tunes than the words. Examples of why you don't like them could be because they are plain boring, badly written, strange progressions within the tune etc. If you want to nominate some words to hymns then by all means do so.

My nomination goes to the tune: San Rocco (by Derek Williams)

Its a surprisingly modern tune, written in 1968, but has the classic Anglican hymn feel to it (ie. its not Gospal or for guitars and keyboards, no clapping etc) The beginning few bars start well and its quite catchy, but half way through we get some strange progressions in the tune which makes it difficult to sing and it sounds disjointed. The tune doesn't go where one would expect it to go.

Then it finishes not quite where you'd expect it to end - it feels like its been prematurely cut short. There could perhaps be a few more bars added to make it sound more definitive. With the result that it ends sounding "unfinished".

I certainly make a point of not selecting this hymn because of its awkwardness. Quite how its managed to weedle its way into some respectable hymn books is beyond me. One for the scrapheap IMO.

Interested in hearing further nominations and/or opinions. 

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Currently own:
ALLEN TC-3S (#42904 - 3rd Feb 1971) with Sequential Capture System

Speakers:
x1 Model 100 Gyro Cabinet
x1 Model 105 Cabinet
x3 Model 108 Cabinet

There's one hymn they use in my mother's church (well, they use many hymns and songs I don't like) but this one half of its major and the other half is minor, I can't stand that because it doesn't use either one well. It just occured to me it would be funny to write a hymn in the style of Arthur Schoenberg complete with tone rows and sprechtsingen (I'm not sure I spelled that right). But as far as the text goes, "I bind unto myself today" I don't like it either, I think it's childish, and simple, and it sounds faintly BDSM, which I think we all agree has no place in church save for Marilyn Manson's church of satanism.

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Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control

I'll only mention the traditional hymns, as I'm not particularly fond of any of the contemporary ones.   

I've never cared for BEECHER.  I want to like it, as it seems to have some interesting twists (the minor section especially); ultimately the 'squareness' of the harmonic structure and static chord changes make it feel tedious.  The melody is harmonized in parallel thirds, which is cloying to my ear.

I dislike SAGINA.  The melody (which is very long) seems to meander about aimlessly - it almost seems like sections of random hymns patched together.  The tune has many large intervals - it leaps about about alarmingly and is quite difficult to follow.  The melody contains a mixture of whole, half, quarter, and eighth notes - even a bit of syncopation.  There are some long, melodically/harmonically static parts, but other parts are very active - a "Jekyll & Hyde" hymn!    There are a few notes down in the 'basement'; then there are three upward arpeggios in G, C, then D!  At the refrain, the poor singers are shouting an octave and a half above the lowest notes - I always feel the congregation is straining to sing.  http://songsandhymns.org/hymns/detail/and-can-it-be

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Soubasse32

Just about anything composed after 1900.  For me, BEECHER is all right, but not one of my favorites.  SAGINA is not in our present hymnal (UMC) and as far as I know it never has been--that tune was unknown to me until a few months ago when a visiting Anglican music director conducted an event at my church and our choir had to learn it.  I have developed quite a liking for it, mostly for the reasons SB32 says he doesn't like it.  The words we have sung to it are "And Can It Be" and I think the tune fits the words very well.  I get quite emotional when we sing it (we have it as an anthem now), but that is probably more about the text than the tune.

One of my severe dislikes is of tunes that are marked "Unison", especially if they do reveal detailed parts that could be sung.  Nursury-rhyme tunes to be sung like children (one line) are of no interest to me.  (Well, there may be one or two.)  I enjoy part-singing and it even annoys me that the choir is instructed to sing both the first and last verses of any hymn in unison, presumably to teach the tune to the congregation on the first verse and to allow the organist to play something different on the last (can you tell I'm a singer, not an organist?).  I wouldn't mind so much if we sang more hymns (usually only 2) and more verses (never more than 3 or 4).  My big beef is that most hymns are pitched such that I am not comfortable singing the melody line--it goes too high for me to sing it as written (I top out at a C) and too low to sing it an octave lower (I'm always in my vocal "break").  That's another reason I hate unison tunes.

Give me the good old Welsh tunes with robust part-singing!  The farther tunes deviate from that standard, the less I like them.

David

I understand your dislike of unison hymns, however there are some really great ones.  I'm thinking of ones that are harmonically very active, such as LASST UNS ERFREUEN.  Then there are those great hymns based on chant, such as DIVINUM MYSTERIUM.

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Soubasse32

Concerning unison hymns, what about Vaughan-Williams Sine Nomine? About half of it is sung in Unison, but of course, the other half is in harmony, at least in th Christian Scientist Hymnal, The Episcopal Hymnal 1982 which, I conveniently have sitting right in front of me, gives the melody line and nothing else for verses 1,2,3,4,7 and 8, 5 & 6 are given with four part harmony.
    That is one thing I can't stand about The Hymnal 1982, it doesn't give you the harmonization in the pew books, you gotta buy the "musicians copy"which gives everything in the same size as the hymnals in the pews. The CS churches actually got it right, printed the full scores for all hymns in the pew books and made musician copies big enough to conveniently read. 
Sorry about the hymnal rant, I'll retire from the soapbox now, anyone else who so desires to mount it may do so now.

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Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control

Austin766:

Concerning unison hymns, what about Vaughan-Williams Sine Nomine? About half of it is sung in Unison, but of course, the other half is in harmony, at least in th Christian Scientist Hymnal...

Desist, immediately!   Sine Nomine is a very great tune... 66 in the CS Hymnal, 197 in NEH.  How could you possibly criticize that tune?  It is utterly wonderful.  

Singing in unison is nothing to sneer at: the CS hymnal has 81, 82 (a better tune than what the grape juice Protestants have), 136, 210, 250, 256, oh too many to mention. It is the ultimate hymnal, every single tune of importance is there (one exception: Lasst uns erfreuen) and furthermore, one of the greatest hymn tunes of all, John Stainer's Rest, was eliminated from NEH, though it is embalmed in the CS Hymnal (427)  in C major.  (Yikes, not Db, not 4/2 time.  What the hell were those Bostonians thinking?)

The New English Hymnal can be so g** damn politically correct.  Sometimes I hate it, I have many hymnals in my library.  The Christian Science Hymnal is the greatest I have seen.  (Thanks, Buzzy, the hell with the Brits.)  And what's more, both NEH and the CS hymnals have "Wolvercote".  Now this is a great tune!  Anyone know it?  Wow... but be warned, very difficult for the organist. 

 

 

Jason E:

Austin766:

Concerning unison hymns, what about Vaughan-Williams Sine Nomine? About half of it is sung in Unison, but of course, the other half is in harmony, at least in th Christian Scientist Hymnal...

Desist, immediately!   Sine Nomine is a very great tune... 66 in the CS Hymnal, 197 in NEH.  How could you possibly criticize that tune?  It is utterly wonderful.  

Singing in unison is nothing to sneer at: the CS hymnal has 81, 82 (a better tune than what the grape juice Protestants have), 136, 210, 250, 256, oh too many to mention. It is the ultimate hymnal, every single tune of importance is there (one exception: Lasst uns erfreuen) and furthermore, one of the greatest hymn tunes of all, John Stainer's Rest, was eliminated from NEH, though it is embalmed in the CS Hymnal (427)  in C major.  (Yikes, not Db, not 4/2 time.  What the hell were those Bostonians thinking?)

The New English Hymnal can be so g** damn politically correct.  Sometimes I hate it, I have many hymnals in my library.  The Christian Science Hymnal is the greatest I have seen.  (Thanks, Buzzy, the hell with the Brits.)  And what's more, both NEH and the CS hymnals have "Wolvercote".  Now this is a great tune!  Anyone know it?  Wow... but be warned, very difficult for the organist. 

Jason, I think that Austin was suggesting that SINE NOMINE is a great unison hymn and rejecting my dislike for unison hymns.  And I have to agree with both of you that it is a great tune.  I will modify my stance to be one of disliking many unison hymns, most particularly those that do have full harmonic scores in the hymnal but instruct the congregation to sing it in unison.  I think congregants (and the choir) should be encouraged to sing in parts as much as possible--it is a skill that is quickly being lost in the general church membership.  Regarding REST, the UMC hymnal has the tune by Maker, and this has been the only tune of that name in any of the editions I have encountered.  We sing it to "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind".

Regarding Political Correctness:  our previous edition of the UMC hymnal meddled with the words of hymns a lot to make them "inclusive", even in the first verses, which many older Methodists already knew by heart, and this engendered a pretty severe revolt.  The latest edition attempted to mitigate the situation by stating it would only modify words in the later verses--in this it was largely successful, but there are still rumblings.  I, personally, believe that it is immoral to change the words that the original author wrote unless they have given permission to do so.  If the original author is dead and the family is not still in control of the words, then no modification can be justified at all.  I realize that altering text may not be illegal, especially for many very old hymns, but I still think it is wrong to do so.  If some feel that the original words are discriminatory or exclusive, they are free to write new hymns that express their feelings, but they should leave the hymns that I and others have sung for decades alone.  The UMC has even changed the Doxology to use "God" instead of the 2 "Him" words in the text.  I sang it the old way for 40 years before the change and I will NOT change it (I sing the old words).

David

I was not saying I had a problem with Sine Nomine I was merely intendinmg it as a question, Mr. Casteel said he disliked unison singing, I merely asked about a particular tune, Sine Nomine, which is sung in unison.

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Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control

soubasse32:

I dislike SAGINA.  The melody (which is very long) seems to meander about aimlessly - it almost seems like sections of random hymns patched together.  The tune has many large intervals - it leaps about about alarmingly and is quite difficult to follow. 

I don't hate this hymn because of how its written, but because it gets sung so much it begins to wear a bit thin...and that is Amazing Grace. Don't get me wrong its a lovely tune (with great words), but it gets "sung to death" and therefore it makes me moan when I have to hear it for the 9999999th time be it on TV or in some tiny country Church in the middle of no where.

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Currently own:
ALLEN TC-3S (#42904 - 3rd Feb 1971) with Sequential Capture System

Speakers:
x1 Model 100 Gyro Cabinet
x1 Model 105 Cabinet
x3 Model 108 Cabinet

I don't profess to be any sort of authority on church music and the services I have played for over the years would be looked down upon by the liturgical snobbery as "low church", and in some cases so low that they belonged under the pews.  But if there's one thing I learnt over those years it's the music and particularly the congregational singing that can make or break the whole tone of a service. One rule I wrote for myself re. services for hatches, matches, despatches, Christmas Day & Easter Sunday when the congregation is full of visitors from who knows where is always stick to the tried and true, hymns that are familiar to most if not all. Nothing can ruin a service of celebration like a hymn that nobody knows or a well known hymn sung to an unfamiliar tune.  You the organist feel like a right dill playing away to yourself  verse after verse with little or no response, and the first subject for chit chat outside by the old buzzards in their silly hats will be "Oh dear, wasn't the music terrible".   Doesn't matter if you are sick and tired of Amazing Grace, Silent Night or Jesus, Friend of Little Children, or the organ has played them so many times it can register itself, your congregation will know them and respond accordingly, generally with gusto, and the outside comments will be positive, which surely is what we are aiming to achieve.

Cheers,

Ian

PS: As an old Methodist I am quite fond of Sagina

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"If music be the food of love, play on!" - William Shakespeare.

Austin766:

I was not saying I had a problem with Sine Nomine I was merely intendinmg it as a question, Mr. Casteel said he disliked unison singing, I merely asked about a particular tune, Sine Nomine, which is sung in unison.

Sorry, Austin, I thought you didn't like the tune!  Surely Ralph VW at his best.   

Regarding SAGINA, I suppose I shouldn't complain - my church only sings it for Tenebrae service. 

nullogik:

I don't hate this hymn because of how its written, but because it gets sung so much it begins to wear a bit thin...and that is Amazing Grace. Don't get me wrong its a lovely tune (with great words), but it gets "sung to death" and therefore it makes me moan when I have to hear it for the 9999999th time be it on TV or in some tiny country Church in the middle of no where.

My church sings this once per month - my solution is to find an alternate harmonization for the last verse.  An interesting free accompaniment can inject new life into something all too familiar.

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Soubasse32

soubasse32:

My church sings this once per month - my solution is to find an alternate harmonization for the last verse.  An interesting free accompaniment can inject new life into something all too familiar.

Funny you mention that.  My soloist at a sub job a few months ago sang that.  She did a really terrific job, and the congregation loved it! 

Well, I could list dozens... I'm a bit "off" - peeved at the world this week for some reason....

Here are a few of my "most despised" hymns (words and tunes both): "In My Heart There Rings A Melody" - Heart Melody; "Since Jesus Came Into My Heart" - McDaniel; "I Will Sing The Wondrous Story" - Wondrous Story; "I Will Sing Of My Redeemer" - My Redeemer; LLove Lifted Me" - Safety; "Heaven Came Down" - Heaven Came Down; "...any other pietistic protestant drivel..." insert tiring tune here; Anything Gaither or if Tom Fettke touched it.

I love the Anglican Hymnal I now use, the 1938 Book of Common Praise with the 1964 Chant Appendix by Healey Willan. Marvelous lyrics and tunes - a lifetime of glorious hymn singing. Theological depth and language that elevates the mind and spirit.