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Thread: Allen ADC Tone Card Question

  1. #1
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    On Allen's website, there are two lists for Allen tone cards: One for lower model numbers (I presume cheaper), and one for higher model numbers.</P>


    Would anyone know why there are two different lists, and whether or not cards for an organ from one list will work in an organ from the other list? I'm asking because I'd like to get a card for our ADC 6000 that is in the list for the 1100.</P>


    Thanks in advance for your help.</P>


    Michael</P>
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 4 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DKC / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  2. #2
    Senior Member arie v's Avatar
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    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    Myorgan,</p>

    It was during the ADC period that Allen changed the way the cards were used. In their early organs, the cards had the stop waveform plus some other data on it. Then during the ADC period, exactly when I can't say, they changed to the cards merely having a stop number which toggled the waveform(s) already stored in the organ. The cards are not interchangeable.</p>

    That is why there are 2 different lists of cards.</p>

    AV
    </p>

  3. #3
    Moderator jbird604's Avatar
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    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    Michael,</P>


    To elaborate on what Arie says -- the cards made for the ADC1100 are totally different from the ones you have to use for your ADC6000. Would not work at all, or they might produce some weird unrelated tone by accident only.</P>


    MOS 1, MOS 2, and the "regular" ADC models (of which your ADC6000 is one) used cards which, as Arie states, truly contain waveform data, and the card reader has about a dozen lamps and sensors to decode that data as the card is pushed in.</P>


    But the "MADC" models, which include the 1100, 2100, 3100 as well as the improved versions of the same such as the2160 and 3160 -- all these use an entirely different card reader with only six lamps and sensors.</P>


    I suppose Arie is correct in stating that the only data on these cards is a number which points to a set of voices already stored in the organ's computer. No one at Allen ever told me that, but I have heard it from several sources. I do know that the tone cards for that series do not produce any kind of useful tone color when inserted into the other kind of reader.</P>


    BTW, the old-style card readers will "manufacture" a tone from any kind of a punched card you insert. Back in the old days when utility bills came in the form of IBM punched cards (as did government-issued checks -- remember IRS refunds that were on punched cards?) -- anyway, you could take one of these gas or electric bills, push it into the card reader and get some interesting new solo stops!</P>


    Another way to play around with the card reader is to insert a card only part of the way and then pull it back out. You might discover some exciting new sounds that way!</P>


    John</P>
    <P mce_keep="true"></P>
    John
    ----------
    Church: Allen MDS-45 ........ at last!
    Home: Allen MADC-420 ...........finally!
    Shop: More organs than I can count.... some working, many not!
    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

  4. #4
    Senior Member davidecasteel's Avatar
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    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    Back in the late 1970s I was a computer programmer for USAF at Ramstein AB, Germany. The base chapel received a new Allen organ with the original type card reader. Allen treated the coding methodology as proprietary information back then and did not divulge the details of what information was encoded or what the coding system was. Naturally, I was curious, knew a fair amount about different coding methods, and had access to card punches. So I examined a number of the cards, created a few test cards to check out various options, and discovered how the cards were coded. After that I made a few new cards for the organist. Most of those were just rescaled (made louder or softer) versions of existing cards, but some were totally new voices. I wrote a document detailing how to perform the calculations needed to create certain types of waveforms and how to encode them into punches on the card. More recently I have created an Excel spreadsheet that does the majority of the calculations for you, and even graphs what the waveform will look like. I would be happy to send that document to anyone interested.</P>


    Michael, John has indicated that this is the same type of card used by your organ The spreadsheet has an option whereby the punches on an existing card can be decoded into decimal numbers and entered as data; the waveform generated by that card can then be viewed. Perhaps you would find that interesting.</P>


    David</P>

  5. #5

    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    Does the program work with cards for MOS-1 systems? I have a 425-th and would be interested in the program if it does.</p>

    </p>

    Thanks in advance,</p>

    Randy Hunt
    </p>

  6. #6
    Moderator jbird604's Avatar
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    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    Randy,</P>


    David's system should work perfectly for you, as the organ he created it for wasMOS-1.</P>


    John</P>
    John
    ----------
    Church: Allen MDS-45 ........ at last!
    Home: Allen MADC-420 ...........finally!
    Shop: More organs than I can count.... some working, many not!
    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

  7. #7

    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    Well then count me in. . .</p>

    </p>

    Randy
    </p>

  8. #8
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    [quote user="jbird604"] MOS 1, MOS 2, and the "regular" ADC models (of which your ADC6000 is one) used cards which, as Arie states, truly contain waveform data, and the card reader has about a dozen lamps and sensors to decode that data as the card is pushed in.[/quote]</P>


    John,</P>


    So unless I miss my guess based on what you said above, all the tone cards I have purchased so far for the MOS-2 organ I have will also work in the ADC6000? That would be great!!! However, why do the MOS cards on Allen's site not have the multiple chime cards available, while the ADC still have them available? Just a curiosity why the two lists are so different if they call forth the same information in the same manner.</P>


    I think I already knew from previous conversations with David, that the earlier MOS organs contained a digital representation of the waveform, amplitude, etc. on the card, while the tone cards from the later ADC organs just called forth waveforms already in the computer's memory.</P>


    My initial question that started this thread was based on the premise that cheaper/earlier ADC organs would have less waveforms/samples stored in their memory, thereby only allowing certain cards to call forth those tones. Consequently, later (and larger) ADC organs would have more waveforms/samples stored in their memory, thereby requiring different cards. Did earlier ADC organs actually work the same as the MOS models? Great for me if that's so!</P>


    You guys are a wealth of information!!! Much more so than Allen, I can tell you that!</P>


    Michael</P>
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 4 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DKC / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  9. #9
    Senior Member davidecasteel's Avatar
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    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    Randy, the Forum message methods don't allow me to add attachments. You will need to send me a PM with your real email address in it.</P>


    If Allen still has any cards for your MOS-1 instrument you may want to buy them now. I have heard that they have quit making any more of them and when what they have in inventory is gone there will be no more. (I do have a simple card punch, though....)</P>


    David</P>

  10. #10
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Re: Allen ADC Tone Card Question



    [quote user="davidecasteel"] More recently I have created an Excel spreadsheet that does the majority of the calculations for you, and even graphs what the waveform will look like. I would be happy to send that document to anyone interested.[/quote]</P>


    As a recipient of David's Excel spreadsheet, I can vouch for the miraculous nature of his work. Only a genious could figure that out!!!</P>


    Now, I'm just looking for card stock and money for a spare card punch machine so I can make some of my own cards. David, I'm working on a way to take a sampled waveform and place it into your spreadsheet and have it generate the numbers. For example, if I sampled a Celeste, it'd be great to take the waveform and reverse-engineer the card codes for the hole punch. Just a thought--I think we had actually spoken about that before.</P>


    David has done excellent work--yet, gives it away. You're a tremendous asset to this group!</P>


    Michael</P>
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 4 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DKC / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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