M3 bass pedal problem

[billulsund]

I recently purchased a 1955 M3 with a Leslie 110 and I was able to fix all the problems with it except for one. Whenever I hit any of the bass pedals the C note always sounds along with the note of the pedal I am pushing. I took apart the pedal housing and checked the contacts, but could find no problems there. Does anyone have any ideas on what I can do to troubleshoot or repair this problem.

[RegisWhite]

Welcome to the Forum!

You'll find some very nice people here, united under a common cause--preservation of a great instrument! Everyone was very kind to me when I was restoring an old M-3 a few months ago. I'm no expert, but here are a couple of preliminary things that would be good to know:

--Is the "C note" the same volume as the pedal note you're actually playing?

--Do you notice any kind of stray tone when playing keys on either of the manuals?

--Are you using the organ near any fluorescent lights, lights with dimmer switches, ceiling fans, et al?

I ask these things because I was having some problems with 60 Hz hum, which happens when the miles and miles of wiring inside the Hammond "picks up" some electrical buzz from the outside world. I've always thought it was mechanically *impossible* for the Hammond to be anything but monophonic--one note only--from the pedals.

In my case, there was a "low hum" happening whenever I played *anything*--pedals or manuals. It was markedly lower in volume than my "real" notes, but it could easily have been mistaken for an honest-to-goodness "unplayed note," if that makes sense, which is why I asked what I asked...

Don't give up--there are plenty of helpful souls here...

Regis

[RegisWhite]

P.S. to what I just wrote:

You say there's a Leslie 110 connected to your M3; does the C note happen when playing through the Leslie, through the internal speaker on the M3, or both? (This is assuming that the internal speaker on the M3 is still connected and functioning, that is!) I have the feeling that this is a question the veterans and experts on the forum would probably ask you sooner rather than later...[]

Bye again;

Regis

[redoctoberff]

I have the same problem, except the C only soundswhenI play the C#, and vice versa.My M3 is also a '55. Anyone have a solution for this?

[toasterDude]

hi guys, I had this problem on two different M3s. In both cases for me it was a matter of broken wiring/connections at the tonewheel generator. For some reason I've found the original Ms to be more susceptible to damage when moved without properly locking down the generator. Anyway, just take the rounded cover off the back and visually inspect the generator. The connections are right on top so they're easy to see. Find the filter caps corresponding to the bad pedal tones and carefully examine all connections there. Odds are a connection has broken, and all you have to do is resolder it. Here's where to find the right tone location:

http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/wirin...s=29&model=M3e

(note there are different entries for early vs. late M3s: I don't know where the cutoff line is, but M3s were produced between 1955 and 1964, so both '55 models should qualify as "early".)

"redoctoberff", your situation sounds like it's once removed from the above: i.e., somebody moved the organ without locking down the TG, and it swung around and broke a couple connections; then they wired it back based on where they *thought* the connections went. So maybe the C and C# connections are just reversed. Have a look; you can usually tell a non-original solder joint, as it won't be quite as uniform and tidy as all the rest, maybe also slightly different in color or shine. Anyway good luck to both of you - post back and let us know what you find! Scott

[redoctoberff]

Thanks, I was wondering if thats where the problem would be. Unfortunately, the diagram didn't show the connections for the bass pedals, but when I take a look in there (either tomorrow or Sunday) I'll look for broken or differently soldered connections.

(I guess I didn't make this clear in my original post--the problem is that the C sounds when I play C#, but C# also sounds--the same is true when I play the C. Either way I get both tones. Could this mean the problem is with the actual tonewheel, or are the wiresprobably just soldered together?)

[redoctoberff]

Fixed! It was great, I popped off the TG cover and almost immediately saw broken connections. (Most of these were the couple other missing frequencies I had.) I'm not even sure what was wrong with the bass frequencies, but they were the right ones according to the wiring chart and I just resoldered, and it did the trick. The C sounds weirdly out of tune when I play it by itself, but I think that's just the waveform sounding weird? It doesn't sound terribly off with a chord over it, and its better than the C+C# mess I was getting before...

[toasterDude]

Sweet! How cool is it that you can troubleshoot these things just by looking around for obvious problems?!? Tonewheel Hammonds were way before my time, but they give you a real respect for old school quality. Anyway on the weird low C - did you look closely at the capacitor at that tone location? You could have a leaky cap or something... hard to say any further without hearing it. Anyway good luck.