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Thread: GrandOrgue commercial sampe set available

  1. #1
    pp Pianissimo tbeck's Avatar
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    GrandOrgue commercial sampe set available

    As all of you GrandOrgue users are aware, there are a number of free sample sets available -- but few commercial sample sets. Yes, of course it's possible to buy unencrypted Hauptwerk sample sets and laboriously create an ODF file to use them. There are even a few free ODFs available for unencrypted commercial HW sample sets.

    As an enthusiast of GO, I am interested in the long-term viability of GO and I believe that the bigger the market for commercial sample sets, the better for our community. I have found a sample set from Pipeloops, which is newly available for GO. The link is here: http://www.pipeloops.com//product_in...products_id=45

    I am not associated with Pipeloops, and I haven't purchased this sample set yet... but I plan to when my internet situation here is resolved. There are sound demonstrations available, and the instrument sounds very good to me.

    Tom

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    f Forte rjsilva's Avatar
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    That’s really nice to see, thanks for sharing!

    It’d be an advantage to the sampleset-based VPO community if those involved with GrandOrgue development would come up with some sort of encryption scheme so that sample set creators concerned about piracy could feel safer creating and selling sample sets for GrandOrgue. I don’t know if piracy is a legitimate concern or just a fear, but a few of the sample set creators I’ve contacted are concerned, and one was oddly hostile.

    To me, GrandOrgue’s potential is hurt a lot simply because of the many quality encrypted sample sets available which can’t be used with it.

    A plenty secure enough encryption scheme could be created via a single authorisation for a specific machine (via the internet, in a way similar to how iTunes authorises devices but with additional encryption) without a silly and unnecessary hardware dongle. I’d do it myself if I had time...

  3. #3
    pp Pianissimo tbeck's Avatar
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    The issue of copyright or intellectual property protection is a very involved and contentious issue. It's probably been hashed out here many times. I will say that discussions among GO users I have read, that most of the GO community is very respectful of licensing issues.

    (By the way, I can't believe a made a typo in the title of this thread. I used to do copy editing for the local English language newspaper here. Sheesh.)

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    f Forte rjsilva's Avatar
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    That’s good, and that’s what I’d guess about the kind of people currently involved with VPOs. So it’s hard for me to see that sample set piracy was an especially big issue prior to encrypted sample sets. It feels like a move to stifle competition from other VPOs, but I don’t want to be overly presumptuous. Maybe there was a piracy issue. In any case, I hope at some point GO adopts some sort of ‘protection’, as I think it’d be the biggest push forward it could have right now.

  5. #5
    pp Pianissimo tbeck's Avatar
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    Perhaps this issue could be raised with the developers?

  6. #6
    ppp Pianississmo ReinerS's Avatar
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    Thank you Tom for starting this thread!
    I am actually the producer of the sample set that he is referring to, and I view this as an experiment to see if a commercial sample set for Grand orgue actually makes sense from a business point of view. One issue that I find already is that it is very difficult to even inform GO users of the availability of this set, as so far I did not find any place on the web that seems to be home of the GO user community. Or, put differently, apparently there is no such community where a significant number of GO users exchange information. So, if anyone here knows where on the internet this place might be (certainly not the forum on sourceforge with a posting frequency of less than one per week on average), I would be very interested to know!

    Quote Originally Posted by rjsilva View Post
    That’s really nice to see, thanks for sharing!

    It’d be an advantage to the sampleset-based VPO community if those involved with GrandOrgue development would come up with some sort of encryption scheme so that sample set creators concerned about piracy could feel safer creating and selling sample sets for GrandOrgue. I don’t know if piracy is a legitimate concern or just a fear, but a few of the sample set creators I’ve contacted are concerned, and one was oddly hostile.
    Thanks also for raising this point, as I view it as critical for the availability of commercial sets. It only takes one guy to post the files on the internet and there is practically nothing you can do about it. I have seen this with at least two of my Hauptwerk sample sets, which were only using the "simple" encryption method, not the dongle one, and these have been hacked and shared on the net. And yes, I did notice a decrease in sales, but fortunately still people are buying them.

    The issue with GO is that it is open source. This means very simply put that it is absolutely impossible to devise a secure encryption method. It is not really difficult to take the sources and make a version that will dump the files after decryption, since you must decrypt the files before you can process them in the software. So the effort would be a total waste of effort, as it is easy to make a decrypted version and then share this on the net. So the whole thing really does rely on the integrity of the users and I put my trust in that the majority is honest and will either pay for a commercial set or not use it.

    Best regards
    Reiner

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    f Forte rjsilva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReinerS View Post
    Thank you Tom for starting this thread!
    I am actually the producer of the sample set that he is referring to...

    The issue with GO is that it is open source. This means very simply put that it is absolutely impossible to devise a secure encryption method. It is not really difficult to take the sources and make a version that will dump the files after decryption, since you must decrypt the files before you can process them in the software. So the effort would be a total waste of effort, as it is easy to make a decrypted version and then share this on the net. So the whole thing really does rely on the integrity of the users and I put my trust in that the majority is honest and will either pay for a commercial set or not use it.

    Best regards
    Reiner
    Thanks for letting us know your involvement! And thanks for sharing your experience with sample set piracy.

    It’s worth saying that absolute security is not possible. Given my experience and having done similar things, I have complete confidence I could bypass Hauptwerk’s hardware dongle scheme and produce a decrypted sample set. The only reason no one has done it yet is because the people able to do it don’t care.

    Additionally, I suspect that many of those producing sample sets are not accustomed to the idea that piracy is normal (unfortunately). Those who believe they can avoid piracy are simply resting on the fact that VPOs are a niche product.

    So, the issue to me is whether a security scheme is enough to discourage piracy attempts sufficiently. The vast majority of those interested in VPO samplesets don't have the skills to even compile GrandOrgue, let alone be competent enough to add code to save decrypted samples. Is it possible? Of course, just like it's also possible to defeat Hauptwerk's scheme. Is it likely? I'd say it's not likely to result in significant piracy, and I suspect any illegally distributed sample sets would affect sales far less than illegally distributed songs, films, sheet music, etc. affect the sales of those things.

    Of course convincing sample set developers is another story...hence my frustration with the hardware dongle. Hauptwerk could have used a secure software encryption scheme (that the ‘simple’ one was cracked but not the hardware dongle just means the ‘simple’ scheme was lame), but the dongle feeds the naive idea that such protection is necessary. So GrandOrgue has a difficult time competing.

  8. #8
    ppp Pianississmo e9925248's Avatar
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    There is only one day in the year suitable for publishing a GO version with encryption:
    http://mps-net.de/orgel/seite/includ...d&threadid=722 [English]
    http://mps-net.de/orgel/seite/includ...d&threadid=723 [German version with discussions]

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