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Thread: What happened to the Home Organ Market?

  1. #31
    f Forte abacus's Avatar
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    Thing is, very few people want to travel to see anything these days, as they are quite happy to listen to demos online, (Even though very few will be able to make them sound like the demos as they won’t have the equipment) and organ manufactures fall short in this regard, so it’s hardly surprising most people don’t know what they are capable of. (YouTube, Social Media etc. is where it’s at these days, not dealers, which only appeal to the oldies)

    Bill

  2. #32
    ppp Pianississmo Seahog's Avatar
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    In response to abacus: Bill I think what you say is correct about demos on-line being what many listen to. The downside of that is that very, very, few people have a decent sound system linked to their computer/iPad etc so that means they are extremely unlikely to get any idea of the true, dare I say, "majesty" of the sound that an organ can make and that is the point I was making. I don't quite agree that dealers intrinsically only appeal to oldies - just look at the number of car dealerships - but I do concede that many people buy consumer electronics and other consumer items on-line. I guess in that respect keyboards are seen as being "consumer" items whereas organs are probably just too expensive to be so classed and in any case are seen by many as being old fashioned and therefore not "cool".

  3. #33
    ff Fortissimo seamaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abacus View Post
    Thing is, very few people want to travel to see anything these days, as they are quite happy to listen to demos online, (Even though very few will be able to make them sound like the demos as they won’t have the equipment) and organ manufactures fall short in this regard, so it’s hardly surprising most people don’t know what they are capable of. (YouTube, Social Media etc. is where it’s at these days, not dealers, which only appeal to the oldies)
    To be fair, they are getting better at this. I can remember when Wersi demos were excruciatingly, embarrassingly awful. Look at the latest crop on YouTube from MusicStore (Robert Bartha) and Wersi Direct (Brett Wales), however, and they’re quite compelling. And Curt’s “Wersi Club USA” videos, though obviously unofficial, have been terrific at showing what the OAX range can do.

    Similarly, Allens’s Lowrey YouTube videos — though cheesy beyond words — are undeniably good demonstrations.

  4. #34
    Moderator andyg's Avatar
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    I see plenty of younger customers coming into Bonners, Bill, not just 'oldies'! Albeit not for organs, but keyboards, guitars amps etc. The store has a good online presence for those who want to buy that way, of course, they have to. But as Tony White said a while back at a staff evening out, "You can't play a guitar online!" Same thing for keyboards, synths, pianos etc etc....
    It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

    New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

    Current organ: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition
    Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball something-or-other.
    Retired Leslies, 147, 145, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.

  5. #35
    ppp Pianississmo daryljeffreyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyg View Post
    They can't, Daryl. They charge a very high price, making very large margins. They then allow a part exchange against a new model at a value that's way higher than its true market value. The customer then thinks they're getting a great deal. That part ex model then gets sold to someone lower down the Lowrey line, again with a part exchange at a higher than true value. And so on.

    Break out of that chain and try to sell the organ and you discover its true worth on the market. Yes, Lowrey are most likely the fastest depreciating organs on the planet. But high depreciation has been part of the home organ world for many. many years, regardless of make or model. I have to go back to the early 70s to find a point where it wasn't. Back then, I can recall selling a Yamaha to a customer for around £250. Two months later he traded it in against a Hammond at £450. By then the Yamaha had gone up in price to around £300 so I gave him almost all his money back on the Yamaha and sold it immediately for £250 again. Two months later he was back to trade up again and I did the same sort of thing and did it again a few months later. Thing is, at that time, prices were going up by the month. We'd buy stock in bulk, get a bulk discount and then sit on that stock for a few months before making some better margins on it. When did this sort of thing stop? Certainly by the late 1970s. It seemed that every new range of models had more spec for the same, or less, money.
    They could. However they would not be able to offer the customer anything, or very little on a trade. Lowering the price of the home organ might bring in new customers. In the USA, most organ buyers are the senior citizens. When these senior citizens are gone from the market, new home organs sales will cease. Will lower prices and lower profit margins, and more customers, dealers could be more honest with their customers. Dealers should direct their customers to higher end home organ models with better speaker systems, and therefore better sound, provided the customer has the money or can get the financing, without economic hardship. If someone like the overall sound of their organ, they will happier and less inclined to want to trade up. Overall the customer will spend less money and be happier, in the long term. Lower prices and profit margin may bring back more younger people. Group lessons should be about teaching people to play the organ, not be used to pressure the customer to trade up to another organ, even before the person has learned to use most of the features on their present home organ.

    Lowrey organ's "smoke and mirrors" approach is limiting, in the short term, in the USA, organ sales to elderly senior citizens. With organ dealers, being few and far between, in the USA, except, where in a few States, senior citizens are concentrated, organ manufacturers approaches to selling organs, particularly Lowrey, will mean that most younger people will never experience the joy of hearing and possibly purchasing a home organ. Younger people won't miss what they have never seen, heard, or had an opportunity to play; the home organ.

    I am speaking for the USA. I can't speak for the UK, since I have never lived there. However based on what I read, with fewer dealers selling organs, organ sales are down in the UK too.

    In the end, it will be the dealers and the manufacturers who decide what strategy to use.

    The home organ is a wonderful instrument to lose.

  6. #36
    Moderator andyg's Avatar
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    Don't believe all you read. There are just a few UK dealers left, but with Ringway and the new Bemore selling everything that comes into the country and a gentle stream of Bohm, Wersi and direct Yamaha imports, I think our new organ sales are OK. And 'nearly new' organ sales are healthy enough, handled by two or three dealers that became somewhat specialist 'clearing houses' for these instruments.

    I appreciate your obvious enthusiasm for the instrument, it's the same with me, but the days of a slim profit margins, high turnover and fast turnaround of trade-ins are long gone. With effectively just one make available in the USA, that won't change. Lowrey have adopted the high pressure marketing strategy you and many others here have described and they're locked into it.
    It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

    New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

    Current organ: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition
    Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball something-or-other.
    Retired Leslies, 147, 145, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.

  7. #37
    ff Fortissimo seamaster's Avatar
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    Not sure anyone's punting Bhm in the UK anymore. They're conspicuously absent on the Musictraders website, and have been for a while.

  8. #38
    ppp Pianississmo Chandeneze's Avatar
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    Hi All, yes to me is just so so sad that the organ market is dying. In South Africa organs is nowhere to find. The younger generation does not even know what you talk about when mentioning the word organ. To them it is the pipes in the church making a boring sound they cant relate to or something they hear on a horror movie. The last organs that came to South Africa was in the late 80's Technics and the FX3 and G7 was the last models imported. I look and listen to so many demos of the Bohm and Wersi but yes it is only for the very rich and famous not for a average worker. As I have a dream of having a organ like the Wersi Lovere I have decided to build my own organ. I have manufactured a cabinet to the size I want. I bought a Tyros 4, a Korg Pa4x. The pedals from Viscount (full pedal board)and a viscount legend solo for the drawbar sound and look. I am combining all 3 keyboards into this cabinet and redesigned a new panel board to fit all the screens, knobs and buttons I am also adding a PC with widows 10 integrated with the KB so that I can use it as storage and to use my Sonar and music programs. The book stand I have decided to use the PC monitor (descend size) so I can scan all my music ( Fake books and buskers and sheets) in PDF format so I can have a electronic music book all stored in the PC in the organ. I am busy with this for a few months now and it is extremely time consuming and takes a lot of planning. I had to make a few changes to the cabinet already and it is still far from complete. It is so exiting and the combination of this 3 keyboards with a midi bass pedal set will be in a class of its own It is going to be a huge organ and a fraction of the cost of a Wersi or a Bohm and I have all the sounds I love. I am just sad that I do not have the Genos but my Tyros 4 a still a master. I suppose we will only see Genos in South Africa when Yamaha release genos 3. That's how far behind we are in SA. everything that does not sell anymore in the rest of the world end up in SA. LOL

  9. #39
    f Forte abacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chandeneze View Post
    Hi All, yes to me is just so so sad that the organ market is dying. In South Africa organs is nowhere to find. The younger generation does not even know what you talk about when mentioning the word organ. To them it is the pipes in the church making a boring sound they cant relate to or something they hear on a horror movie. The last organs that came to South Africa was in the late 80's Technics and the FX3 and G7 was the last models imported. I look and listen to so many demos of the Bohm and Wersi but yes it is only for the very rich and famous not for a average worker. As I have a dream of having a organ like the Wersi Lovere I have decided to build my own organ. I have manufactured a cabinet to the size I want. I bought a Tyros 4, a Korg Pa4x. The pedals from Viscount (full pedal board)and a viscount legend solo for the drawbar sound and look. I am combining all 3 keyboards into this cabinet and redesigned a new panel board to fit all the screens, knobs and buttons I am also adding a PC with widows 10 integrated with the KB so that I can use it as storage and to use my Sonar and music programs. The book stand I have decided to use the PC monitor (descend size) so I can scan all my music ( Fake books and buskers and sheets) in PDF format so I can have a electronic music book all stored in the PC in the organ. I am busy with this for a few months now and it is extremely time consuming and takes a lot of planning. I had to make a few changes to the cabinet already and it is still far from complete. It is so exiting and the combination of this 3 keyboards with a midi bass pedal set will be in a class of its own It is going to be a huge organ and a fraction of the cost of a Wersi or a Bohm and I have all the sounds I love. I am just sad that I do not have the Genos but my Tyros 4 a still a master. I suppose we will only see Genos in South Africa when Yamaha release genos 3. That's how far behind we are in SA. everything that does not sell anymore in the rest of the world end up in SA. LOL
    Welcome, if you are going for the self-build computer route, then forget about fully featured keyboards and use Midi controller keyboards instead, you can then get a touch screen and combine with the vArranger2 software https://www.varranger.com/ and a quality VST such as Steinbergs Absolute https://www.steinberg.net/en/product...t_you_get.html which will give you top notch sounds and an arranger organ OS, which will be much more flexible than the keyboards you mention. (It will actually be easier to setup than trying to combine the Yamaha and Korg Keyboards, as well as being fully compatible with your existing sequence software)
    The Sky is the limit really.

    Bill

  10. #40
    ppp Pianississmo Chandeneze's Avatar
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    Hi Bill thanks for the advice. The most wonderful thing about life is there is always someone that knows better than your self with better ideas. Thanks again I will look into this if I can get a better performance.

    Martin

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