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Thread: Do reeds have to be loud?

  1. #11
    mf Mezzo-Forte Leisesturm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidecasteel View Post
    Off topic, but I still can't access the Encyclopedia of Organ stops (www.organstops.org). I've been unable to do so for a couple of years now.

    David
    Have you tried recently... like say, today? I ask because I just tried and the site came up before my finger had come up off the 'enter' key. Maybe your ISP has blocked your access to the site because you've been downloading too many Gigabytes from it

  2. #12
    mf Mezzo-Forte Leisesturm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutball View Post
    My 16 and 4 are softer than the 8 trompette. I'd like the basson to come in more pitches and volumes. I would also like something like a multi trumpet.

    Other than the fact that more features on a digital means more time and money, it is way quicker, cheaper, and easier to do it on a digital than a real pipe organ. So I figure they should toss in a few more stops and couplers and other fun stuff you might not even find on bigger pipe organs. I guess that are just trying to maintain an authentic experience.

    I would think on a real pipe organ it would be easy enough to keep the loudest pipes in a separate group where with one button you can have shutters close to knock their volume down a good bit. Then they could have the same button on a digital.
    From what little I know about it, 16' manual voices should be weak because they get growly (a technical term) otherwise, and 4' voices should be weaker than their 8' counterpart because they become very shrill. Beyond that, your post scratches at the crux of a biscuit that I have long had a need to vent about. Organs and organists both have been done a great wrong by organ builders of both dominant technology of organbuilding and the organbuilding industry are beginning to reap the fruits of their perfidy by the rise of Virtual Pipe Organ technology that will come to be their undoing. I am just a humble player of instruments that purport to fulfill the functions of being an organ, piped or otherwise, and I wouldn't' know anything about the realities of material and labor costs, and profit etc. but IF the value of what an organbuilder was able to provide, at a cost that a majority of clients could more or less easily contemplate, it might have been possible to provide more instruments in the world that organists wanted to play and organ music lovers wanted to listen to! Any digital organ at any price point below cost no object 'custom' is going to have an amount of internal unification and/or duplexing that would make even a Theater Organ builder blush. That the best any of them were able to do is retail these instruments for ~1/10 - 1/20 the cost of a run of the mill pipe organ is strike one. Pipe organ builders themselves churned out 10's of thousands of mediocre ~15 - ~30 rank two manual instruments of severely compromised utility thus reserving a special and exclusive status for the workhorse 3m/50+ rank recital instrument. Strike two.

    Well, those 3m/50+ rank recital instruments are practically the entry level instrument for a VPO. The FREE Hauptwerk software ships with the St. Anne Mosley instrument which is three manuals. A modest outlay of cash for the Basic or Advanced versions and you can have (strike three) a 4m/80+ rank instrument that will have reeds and mixtures at any and every dynamic level an organist could want (or need) to perform all the repertoire that has been composed for the instrument. It is beyond my ability to know whether pipe organ builders were scamming us, or if digital organ builders were scamming us, but IMO some major scamming was going on. Even if the business practices of both industries were fair and honest, they did not (IMO) fully respect the intelligence of organists and church organ fund committees in selecting appropriately sized instruments for the optimal support and furtherance of a self-perpetuating Music Ministry. Some amazing music is being performed, recorded, and enjoyed by organists and organ enthusiasts all over the world but less and less of it is happening in churches. That's all I've got. Sorry for the hijack, Nutball.

  3. #13
    mf Mezzo-Forte Nutball's Avatar
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    A scam, maybe. Or maybe they didn't have good competition, or maybe the competition was in on it with the others

    Maybe their new competition: VPO will change their new models.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nutball View Post
    Of course they don't, but do they according to organ design standards? I can't expect much out of the small stop list on my Allen 530, but I think it should be somewhat common to have ranks of various volume ranges, so you can have a quiet trumpet if you want, or loud strings or something. My violas are quiet, but that usually doesn't bother me, although sometimes I want them to stand out more when many stops are used. The reeds though are so much louder than everything else that I rarely use them, but very often I want a sharp reed sound well balanced with the other stops. It's understandable that there are natural volume limitations to certain pipe designs, but it should be possible to even them up volume wise. One rank could be of normal volume and another of the same timbre could be made to sound as close as possible in volume to the others. The mixture is another that I sometimes don't use as out of balance as it is, but it's not as bad as reeds.
    Depends, I was a former brass player in a symphonic band and I love my loud reeds in pipe organ music, however, I think that some of the softer reeds like the French Horn or soft reed has its place (depends largely on the music for me) , However I get a adrenalin rush when someone engages the loud chorus reeds and let the furry out, full swell open, ah. That is why I cannot wait for the fanfare division to be restored at the boardwalk hall organ as it contains high pressure reeds and flues. I though have thought of voicing a Vox Humana on a wind of 90"+ of wind. This is also why I like the Post Horn and the tubas on Unit Orchestras.

    But at the same time

  5. #15
    fff Fortississimo davidecasteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    Have you tried recently... like say, today? I ask because I just tried and the site came up before my finger had come up off the 'enter' key. Maybe your ISP has blocked your access to the site because you've been downloading too many Gigabytes from it
    I tried the same day I posted. I don't download much at all. The best guess anyone has come up with in the past is that the particular DNS I connect to has no entry for the site. I have no idea how to fix that.

    David

  6. #16
    mf Mezzo-Forte Leisesturm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidecasteel View Post
    I tried the same day I posted. I don't download much at all. The best guess anyone has come up with in the past is that the particular DNS I connect to has no entry for the site. I have no idea how to fix that.

    David
    I was kidding. The DNS theory doesn't ring true*. It is likely something specific to your computer. In the 'security' settings of your favorite browser you must have inadvertently blocked that website. I would try another browser and see if you get the same error.

    *if we are talking about your home machine, at work or elsewhere all bets are off...

  7. #17
    fff Fortississimo davidecasteel's Avatar
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    I only have one browser. There are no blocked sites in my Security settings. The error message does not indicate a refusal to display, but that it cannot be displayed and suggests that there is a connection problem of some kind. I'm not enough of a guru to determine what the problem is. (I'm using IE11.) I tried making it a "trusted site" but that can only be done for https sites, it seems and it's only http.

    David

  8. #18
    mf Mezzo-Forte Leisesturm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidecasteel View Post
    I only have one browser.
    So load another. Why not. In less than five minutes you can be up and running with Chrome or Firefox and if either one can pull up the Dictionary website then you know you are dealing with an IE11 specific issue. There cannot be a 'connection problem', obviously as you are (?) able to visit other sites. What happens if you try to make the site 'trusted'? What is the specific error message? I am enough of a guru to figure out what the problem is, but only if I have the exact wording of any error messages you receive. That being said, I was already out of the game when Windows 7 came along. My system at home (the one I am on right now) runs Win7 but I haven't found that the essentials change that much. What are you using? Win10? I didn't know there was such a thing as IE11. Aren't you being pushed to install "Edge"? Or whatever they call their new browser?

  9. #19
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidecasteel View Post
    I tried making it a "trusted site" but that can only be done for https sites, it seems and it's only http.
    David,

    Try allowing the domain only (i.e. organstops.org OR www.organstops.org OR *.organstops.org). The asterisk[*] is a wildcard, meaning that anything hosted on that domain could load. You may also need to allow Java and/or applets to trusted websites, but if you do so, do it carefully, not allowing too much at once before testing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    So load another. Why not. In less than five minutes you can be up and running with Chrome or Firefox and if either one can pull up the Dictionary website then you know you are dealing with an IE11 specific issue.
    While I know others recommend Chrome or Firefox, I do not. When you read the TOS (Terms of Service) you are giving up a lot more privacy and information than with IE11 when IE11 is configured properly (IMHO). I always raise my security level when securing IE11, but in doing so, allow 1st party session cookies but no 3rd party cookies. The site in question has always worked with those settings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
    I am enough of a guru to figure out what the problem is, but only if I have the exact wording of any error messages you receive.
    [snip]
    I didn't know there was such a thing as IE11.
    Leisesturm, I'm a bit confused by your statements. Surely, if you're enough of a guru to figure out what the problem is, then you would know IE11 is not an operating system, but the latest iteration of Internet Explorer--an Internet browser. Maybe I misunderstood your wording.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 4 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony)
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  10. #20
    mf Mezzo-Forte Nutball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myorgan View Post
    David,

    Try allowing the domain only (i.e. organstops.org OR www.organstops.org OR *.organstops.org). The asterisk[*] is a wildcard...

    Michael
    Now who's contributing to an off topic? I don't mind my question is done.

    I was about to say David and Leisesturm should PM about the issue and post the solution here when found. I always thought your name was Lesliesturn until I took a closer look, I like Lesliesturn better
    Allen 530A

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