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Thread: Latency Discussion

  1. #21
    mf Mezzo-Forte rjsilva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutball View Post
    ...Reduce it by sacrificing quality by having the console close, or by using a Mic and ear buds
    Or ... just adapt to the delay

  2. #22
    ppp Pianississmo e9925248's Avatar
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    For anybody interested in training/trying that at home: GrandOrgue allows to configure even large tracker delay at organ/windchest/rank/pipe level.

  3. #23
    p Piano John Kinkennon's Avatar
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    Latency can have an impact on congregational singing as well. In situations where the organist does not "lead" then the tempo is likely to go slower and slower as the organist listens to both the organ and the congregation, while the congregation listens to the organ (perhaps) and tend to slow the tempo in any case. The result can turn the most inspiring hymn into a dirge. In less formal services a song leader may attempt to conduct the singing but that is problematic as well. Latency becomes more than a technical curiosity in these cases.

  4. #24
    mf Mezzo-Forte Leisesturm's Avatar
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    I wish I could find the video now, but there was a performance of some big choral work with organ accompaniment that I saw linked here. The organist was pretty young and very talented, and he was up in a forward loft with an assistant around his age, and the assistant was watching the director who was down on the gallery floor with the choir, and the pipes were clearly far in the back of the Sanctuary and the delay between the pipes and console was seconds. It was really quite something to see the assistant anticipating the delay and saying, now! and the kid starts playing and seconds later comes the sound and very much in sync with the choir singing up front. Whew. I was for a time the organist of a large Episcopal Church in NYC. Each Sunday the choir processed in from the back of the church where the pipes were. It was the strangest thing, the fact that the pipes were a full second behind my fingers was never an issue when I played for my audition or when practicing. I LOVED practicing (G. Donald Harrison A-S) but when I had to accompany the choir processing they would holler at me for playing so slowly. It is as hard for me as it would be for Jbird to divorce myself completely from what I am hearing. But that is how its done. You just set a tempo and maintain it, unwavering, and they sing with you or they don't. The choirs in such places will be trained to deal with this, but this is why it seems like the fantastically credentialed and fantastically paid top tier organists that play for the very large national cathedrals seem so metronomic and unmusical. They have to be.

  5. #25
    mf Mezzo-Forte Roger Memphis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbird604 View Post
    "People who are not experienced with that latency play haltingly as they keep waiting for aural feedback. Some organists can never adapt and avoid such venues." ...That would be me for sure, Larry!
    Me too! (or I also), John.
    Applies to me absolutely. Playing fast tunes at the Orpheum Theater was punishment to me !
    Slow numbers I could handle (more or less…LOL).
    Roger Memphis
    C-3 with O-M, 145, 122RV, 2 PR-40's, PSR-36
    CV with HR-40, 2 B-40's

  6. #26
    Moderator jbird604's Avatar
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    Somebody out there can probably play the organ with gardening gloves on, with a cast on one leg, while blindfolded and wearing earbuds playing rock music. But I say why do that if you don't have to! That's why my career has been devoted to talking churches out of installing organs in a manner that will be a pain in the rear to every organist who ever touches it and will be notorious among area organists as a very bad place to play.

    As Allen Organ Co used to tell us (paraphrasing the installation guide): "If there are problems with the way the church is designed so that a proper organ installation can't be done, try to have the problems corrected before you install. If the installation is going to be a musical disaster, you might be better off to pass on the deal."

    Why let your name be associated with an organ that is the laughingstock of the community? Again, this is not the fault of the churches, but it is the builders of such monstrosities who ought to be ashamed of themselves.
    John
    ----------
    Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
    Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
    Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

  7. #27
    Administrator Admin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbird604 View Post
    Somebody out there can probably play the organ with gardening gloves on, with a cast on one leg, while blindfolded and wearing earbuds playing rock music.
    There's an anecdote I heard regarding the Wannamaker Organ. Apparently a well-known French organist, whose name escapes me, was visiting the store and had a go at the console. After a few moments he threw up his hands in frustration saying it was impossible to play due to the latency and acoustics. The late Dr. Keith Chapman, who was the Grand Court Organist at the time, sat down at the console, set a copy of the morning newspaper on the music stand and proceeded to play a complex piece (Bach's Em Prelude and Fugue ("The Wedge")?, again not sure) while reading stories in the newspaper out loud, much to the chagrin of the Frenchman.

  8. #28
    mp Mezzo-Piano beel m's Avatar
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    Everyone prolly knows this, but I'll mention that due to the careful rebuilding work and especially the Opus 2 system that powers the Wanamaker organ, the latency's gone. I too remember the "bad old days" (worked at the store in the mid-1970's and used to hang out with Keith, Nelson, and Mac) and it's shocking to be there now and realize the former lag is GONE!

    R, Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    There's an anecdote I heard regarding the Wannamaker Organ. Apparently a well-known French organist, whose name escapes me, was visiting the store and had a go at the console. After a few moments he threw up his hands in frustration saying it was impossible to play due to the latency and acoustics. The late Dr. Keith Chapman, who was the Grand Court Organist at the time, sat down at the console, set a copy of the morning newspaper on the music stand and proceeded to play a complex piece (Bach's Em Prelude and Fugue ("The Wedge")?, again not sure) while reading stories in the newspaper out loud, much to the chagrin of the Frenchman.

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