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Thread: 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ

  1. #71
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    Thanks, Mr. PC. We're up late...

    I actually think I'm on the right path here. The idea of introducing an orifice and sizing it seems to be working well. I like getting an amplified effect on the pedals while still being able to go very soft, soft and very loud, loud. That soft, soft is an eye-opener because there is not much pulsation to be had, which I always had with very slow pumping when I wanted soft. I mean now I can go down VERY soft before I hear pulsing.

    I thought about a variable valve sort of thing. Maybe a slide valve or other type. I couldn't find any 2" iris valves to be had, but I was thinking about the kind that is in the bottom of commercial blenders. They're cable operated.

    I don't think the Orgavac needs a bypass. It's designed to run without any key presses, perhaps for an extended time, like leaving the organ "running" when getting music together, or during the service, or going to... lunch.

    And kind of another thing, introducing a deliberate bleed would add to the noise level. That's the reason I'm trying to get it away from the organ...

    I was planning to add a "door" on the back of the organ to pass the flex hose through. Since Casey pointed out that I don't want the check-valve on the Orgavac end (lest I suck out the flex hose as well as the bellows when pumping), I've changed the plan to mounting the check valve on the back of the organ. (It needs a flat, clean surface to seal to, and its base is 6 x 6 inches.)

    I uploaded an image of what it looks like to my gallery. When admin OKs it, I'll link it into this thread.

    Anyway, I have my ten-foot flexible hose coming and will experiment with having the pump at a little distance.

    By the way, I don't LOVE the idea of having the check valve on the back of the organ, but so far I'm not finding the 6 x 6 x 5 + bend radius flat spot I need inside the organ. (And, of course, the the valve needs to "face" the organ, i.e. greater pressure from the bellows should close the valve. The check-valve is there to protect the pump AND to prevent reverse flow through the pump if it's not running and the organ is being played.)

    You know, with all this plotting and planning, the easiest thing to do would just be to set the pump down beside the organ. The proof of concept is WORKING right now, and that would only take a few feet more flex hose. Hmm... I LIKE this idea.

    In other news - I also made a slightly larger orifice and got my mom to try the organ. She's been a pianist all her life, but has had VERY little experience with organs, mainly an aunt's pump organ when she was a teen. Fortunately she likes the sound of the Kimball. This will take some fine tuning to find a sweet spot, but I think I'll find a reasonable volume base level that she likes without having to go to full suction and the loudness that entails. She'll still be able to get more volume by pumping, operating the knee lever, or pulling the Forte stops.
    -- I'm Lamar - Rodgers W5000C - Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3
    -- 1899 Kimball pump organ (forum thread) - can't find headphone jack!
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  2. #72
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    Here's the suction pump sitting behind the organ. That's the check-valve on top. It's pre-wired with the plug-in cord and a zip-cord with an on/off switch.

    -- I'm Lamar - Rodgers W5000C - Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3
    -- 1899 Kimball pump organ (forum thread) - can't find headphone jack!
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  3. #73
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    I got the 10 ft flex hose in, and I'm trying it out. It's transparent, made of PVC, and has a metallic spring winding. Its intended use is chip/sawdust collection. It's both flexible and supportive, showing no signs of creaking or compacting. With the check valve in place at the unit, I can still pump the organ up to play it manually. This is with a 1/2" orifice, which may be a bit much. I'm going to try a slightly smaller opening. I'd like for the suction to just barely play the organ so the pedaling still makes the organ respond.

    I have two more gasketed 2 1/2" Delrin flanges coming from Arndt to construct a pass-trough on the back of the cabinet.

    The hose appears to have come from Peachtree Woodworking Supply in Atlanta to Amazon in Kentucky, and then back to me east of Atlanta.

    In other news, I'm still using the old piano bench with the top tilted with about a 1 1/2" drop. It took about a week for my poor old back to get used to it, but the good news is that it gets me up higher on the keyboard and frees up my lungs so I can make a joyful noise. (At least the birds outside seem to enjoy it.)
    -- I'm Lamar - Rodgers W5000C - Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3
    -- 1899 Kimball pump organ (forum thread) - can't find headphone jack!
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  4. #74
    ff Fortissimo Organfella's Avatar
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    As promised (some while ago) here are a couple of pictures of the blower coupling contraption I removed from my Mannborg Tudor. The assembly is fitted on the inside with some kind of controllable flap valve no doubt to regulate the airflow. The extension piece has been damaged as it protrudes about 3" outside the back of the organ and in the past some unscrupulous transporters laid the organ on its back, mangling this extension piece. I removed it and sealed the mounting hole simply as it is not needed and to have a little better access to the insides when necessary. It was not connected to the pushrods in any event.

    IMG_20170913_072944.jpgIMG_20170913_072954.jpg

    Maybe I'll put it back some day....

    Nico
    "Don't make war, make music!" Hammonds, Lowreys, Yamaha's, Gulbransens, Baldwin, Technics, Johannus. Reed organs. Details on request...

  5. #75
    ff Fortissimo Silken Path's Avatar
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    Thanks, Nico. Hmm... shutter inside I guess, and it's cable (well, pushrod) operated. Hmm. I'm still thinking of making some slide or iris in the pump side to provide variable suction (although the orifice idea is working fine). Is that a spring-loaded dump valve on the bottom?

    I explored making a similar box to go inside the organ, but space atop is at a premium. The fall-board mechanism (part of which is visible in the last picture up there, swings in an arc to the rear, and there is also the Vox Humana and some stops mechanism hanging off the back of the works. Something similar to yours would have been good if fore-planned, but what I ended up doing was to provide a pass-through to the outside of the organ, and, hey, it protrudes about three inches. This will give me plenty of room to unhook the flex-hose when removing the back. It's oogly, but not as oogly as mounting that check valve back there would have been.

    On another front, I saw a video on YouTube where a gentleman was saying that many of the organs that come into his shop have the back removed, and he said that was because the owners were looking for more sound from the organ. With the back removed on the Kimball, I get a noticeably reduced sound, but that's because the "speaker" openings are toward the front.

    I've read that Kimball had quality problems with their pianos about when this organ was made. They hired efficiency experts to watch the construction process, and went on the become the biggest manufacturer of pianos in America. They blew that, even, and after a while did it again.

    Thanks again for the pictures. They're food for thought.
    -- I'm Lamar - Rodgers W5000C - Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3
    -- 1899 Kimball pump organ (forum thread) - can't find headphone jack!
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

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