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Thread: A Prelude and fuge I composed

  1. #131
    p Piano andijah's Avatar
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    It's not sure whether Bach himself really was the composer of the "8 little preludes and fugues" (BWV 553-560). There are scholars who believe they were written by one of his students. Nonetheless they are nice works.

  2. #132
    f Forte regeron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy67716 View Post
    I am analysing Bach's Prelude and Fugue in C major (BWV 553) and I have found out that bars 5 to 8 of the prelude have the tenor and alto voices playing consecutive forths in the first half of each bar.
    That isn't couterpoint.
    They are separated from each other by thirds. That IS counterpoint.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy67716 View Post
    There are also consecutive fifths between the bass and tenor parts.
    They are also separated from each other by thirds. Again, this IS counterpoint.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy67716 View Post
    I guess Bach know how to do this in a way that was Genius.
    Which book on counterpoint are you reading? Or where are you getting your counterpoint instruction?

  3. #133
    pp Pianissimo Eddy67716's Avatar
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    I got the majority of information from this video.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnkI2z0cFjQ

    The rest I got was from this forum. I've been finishing off studies for this year so I haven't done any more reading into counterpoint.

    If bars five to eight were the first species they go against the video. Maybe the video is only for two voice works.

  4. #134
    pp Pianissimo Eddy67716's Avatar
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    Would these videos be more trustworthy?

    I have already watched and noted down videos 1 and 2

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...60D90FB432BD69

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, I get it,

    The first video was only for two part counterpoint.

  5. #135
    pp Pianissimo Eddy67716's Avatar
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    I have made another counterpoint experiment.

    4834729-Test_fugue.mp3
    Test_fugue.pdf

  6. #136
    f Forte regeron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy67716 View Post
    Would these videos be more trustworthy?

    I have already watched and noted down videos 1 and 2

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...60D90FB432BD69

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, I get it,

    The first video was only for two part counterpoint.
    Any audio-visual attempt to teach counterpoint that can't even spell correctly is not to be trusted. ["Lesson 2 - Indipendence"?] As well, the presenter hasn't even made a video loud enough to hear. It's worthless.

  7. #137
    p Piano KOC62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regeron View Post
    ...that can't even spell correctly is not to be trusted....
    Sounds harsh for a Canadian mindset.

  8. #138
    pp Pianissimo Eddy67716's Avatar
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    I probably need to find out what stuff I learned is right and what stuff is wrong.

    Counterpoint melodies should: (I presume that most of this info should be applied to other melodies.)
    have no melodic 7th intervals because they're too dissonant,
    have no augmented or diminished intervals like C to F# or G# but all others are good,
    compensate for jumps by moving back down,
    keep jumps within an octave, (If I remember right fugues should keep the subjects and counter-subjects within a rage of an octave too.)
    and have no arpeggios.

    Counterpoint harmonies should have,
    no 2nd or 7th harmonic intervals because they are also too dissonant,
    no forth intervals unless it is supported by a third below,
    no consecutive fifths or octaves,
    not too many consecutive thirds or sixths.
    no octaves after a fifth and
    generally have opposite moving voices.

  9. #139


    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy67716 View Post
    I am analysing Bach's Prelude and Fugue in C major (BWV 553) and I have found out that bars 5 to 8 of the prelude have the tenor and alto voices playing consecutive forths in the first half of each bar.
    That isn't couterpoint.

    There are also consecutive fifths between the bass and tenor parts.
    I guess Bach know how to do this in a way that was Genius.
    A few points:

    This is not written by Bach. Good pieces, though. Just later than Bach.

    This section (bars 5 - 8) is homophonic, not contrapuntal.

    The interval of a fourth between the lowest 2 parts is a discord as it makes a second inversion; you can have these fourths, but like all discords they must be prepared and resolved properly, i.e. as passing notes or suspensions. But these fourths are not the lowest notes so do not make discords.

    There are no consecutives - these are just repeated chords, not moving parts.

  10. #140
    f Forte rjsilva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddy67716 View Post
    I probably need to find out what stuff I learned is right and what stuff is wrong.

    Counterpoint melodies should: ...<stuff>...

    Counterpoint harmonies should have ... <stuff>
    It's worth saying that there's more to the 'rules' of music theory beyond simple observation and technique building. The rules are built upon effective ways of communicating music. Species counterpoint develops a good mindset for effective melodic writing and harmonising the melody with voice independence. This lays a foundation for future pursuits—for instance, the usage of chord inversions in four part writing for the purpose of good voice leading (in addition to changes in harmonic colour).

    If you don't pay attention to the purpose of these rules then you're missing out. What sound do parallel fifths produce that can make them undesirable? Why can large leaps be musically ineffective? Etc.

    The 'rules' aren't there simply to develop compositional technique. Understanding the why behind the rules allows you understand how to communicate music effectively, and then as you grow you naturally learn when 'rule breaking' makes sense.
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