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Thread: MDS-39 Instrument Questions

  1. #61
    mp Mezzo-Piano CarillonBells's Avatar
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    Another update! Even though the voltage looked close to good for the batteries that were installed in the holder for the AV board, there must have been some issue with them. I decided to replace them all with fresh NiCd that I had sitting here waiting for installation in the ADC just to see if that made any difference.

    The Alterable memory is now functional. It retains the settings from the last cards on both stops. I've tested it through a few power cycles to be sure. The old batteries have been set aside for recycling!!

    So, that problem having been remedied, the remaining problem is solely the removal of ADC cards causing shifting pitch and ultimately the wrong pitch for the stop after removal. Is there a punch at the end of card insertion that tells the board to stop reading when or before the card is removed from the reader? Since we've established that it IS supposed to read the card as it is inserted, it seems like it isn't getting some signal that tells it to stop. I don't suppose anyone has a clue to the various card edge pins or circuits on the AV board where I could check continuity? The lack of solder mask on the trace that I did repair was a telltale sign, but I only saw the one location during my inspection. This might be an excuse to buy a lit magnifier for circuit board work. I have quite a nice bench, soldering iron, etc - but don't have a magnifier yet.

    Also, I cranked up the card reader supply to 9V, just to be sure and there was no change in functionality. I suspect I shouldn't really go too much higher.

    - - - Updated - - -

    David,

    This is interesting - I was basing my assertion off the original (mammoth) tone card thread that it reads on the way out. The MOS cards read on the way in as you stated, this and don't change as they are removed. Something on the ADC cards is awry in that respect since they don't do the same as other have said they should.
    Corey

    Allen MDS-45
    Allen ADC-2160A (Looking for new home - don't have room for two!)
    Schulmerich Carillon Americana - 61 notes Flemish / Harp / Celesta / Quadra / Minor Tierce
    - MIDI Retrofit finally underway & Moller console in need of refurbishment
    Schulmerich Campanile Digital Carillon (Cast & Harp)

  2. #62
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarillonBells View Post
    So, that problem having been remedied, the remaining problem is solely the removal of ADC cards causing shifting pitch and ultimately the wrong pitch for the stop after removal.
    Corey,

    You might be chasing the ADC octave issue for a while. I have that issue ONLY on my ADC-4300. Both the ADC-5400 and ADC-6000 read cards reliably all the time. However, just Sunday I had to program a Trumpet A 8' card while I was playing so I could solo the melody of a hymn. It failed on the first 2 tries--ending up in the wrong octave each time. I credit one of the mis-reads due to my inserting the card while playing.

    I have found (sometimes) that the cards read more accurately when the ADC-4300 organ is first turned on, rather than waiting for when I need it. There is one other issue I'm trying to track down with that organ related to grounding and the mute relays. I doubt it has anything to do with the card reader, but just thought I'd share it. I have found that changing the voltage DOES affect the ability of the card reader to work reliably. Perhaps the current is changing once the organ warms up? All these issues can affect how a card reads, and are possibly worth checking out.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 4 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony)
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  3. #63
    mp Mezzo-Piano CarillonBells's Avatar
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    Michael,

    Interesting that you have this problem on one of your instruments. Is it possible to swap the AV card and/or the card reader, since you have so many "spare" parts? I'm just insanely curious and figure that the bad behavior is likely traced to a singular item in both cases, which could then lead to further troubleshooting.

    With even one part at my disposal, that would tell me where to spend my energy chasing down the root cause. I'm starting to wonder if there is a defective IC on the AV board that might cause this phenomenon. Does the instrument in question have prior battery leakage as well?
    Corey

    Allen MDS-45
    Allen ADC-2160A (Looking for new home - don't have room for two!)
    Schulmerich Carillon Americana - 61 notes Flemish / Harp / Celesta / Quadra / Minor Tierce
    - MIDI Retrofit finally underway & Moller console in need of refurbishment
    Schulmerich Campanile Digital Carillon (Cast & Harp)

  4. #64
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarillonBells View Post
    Interesting that you have this problem on one of your instruments. Is it possible to swap the AV card and/or the card reader, since you have so many "spare" parts? I'm just insanely curious and figure that the bad behavior is likely traced to a singular item in both cases, which could then lead to further troubleshooting.
    Corey,

    I think it's probably possible, however, the organs are so far apart, it will take time. Of the two I have the most ready access, one is a Beta card reader, and the other is standard. I'm not sure if the card reader is interchangeable, or if they both are paired with the cage cards for the AV-1 (regular ADC cage card), and the AV-2 (Beta ADC cage card), etc.

    I'm open to trying it. Maybe this weekend. Great idea.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 4 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony)
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  5. #65
    Moderator jbird604's Avatar
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    Michael, the card readers themselves should be identical or if slightly different they are interchangeable anyway. The only difference in the "Beta" system is that the USAV-1 card in the cage is changed to a USAV-2. Everything else is the same, so any ADC organ's card reader system can be upgraded to "Beta" by swapping that one board.
    John
    ----------
    Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
    Home: Rodgers 580 "Cheetah" organ with custom 6-channel speaker system
    Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

  6. #66
    mp Mezzo-Piano CarillonBells's Avatar
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    Michael,

    Sounds good! If we can narrow it down to the board or the reader I suspect we might be able to both find a solution. Does yours always shift octave, or what percentage of the time? If it isn't all the time, it makes me wonder. I found that it will store the card in memory if I switch off the AV tab before removing the card, which is at least a work-around for the shifted pitch.

    Depending on the age and wear of the power supply parts, it is possible for the voltage to settle out as parts warm up and supplies stabilize a bit. Do you have a thread about the grounding issue? I've had problems on other electronics where I remove and re-seat ground leads/connections and that can sometimes be a simple fix for things.
    Corey

    Allen MDS-45
    Allen ADC-2160A (Looking for new home - don't have room for two!)
    Schulmerich Carillon Americana - 61 notes Flemish / Harp / Celesta / Quadra / Minor Tierce
    - MIDI Retrofit finally underway & Moller console in need of refurbishment
    Schulmerich Campanile Digital Carillon (Cast & Harp)

  7. #67
    pp Pianissimo samibe's Avatar
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    Well, currently the FF has the orignial MDS-39 listed at 25ish times the auction price. I hope nobody falls for that typo.
    Sam

    Yamaha P22 (not enough pedals)
    and an Allen ADC-4500 ... for now.

  8. #68
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samibe View Post
    Well, currently the FF has the orignial MDS-39 listed at 25ish times the auction price. I hope nobody falls for that typo.
    Well.... I've noticed he's now parting out all his organs, so maybe that's what he has in mind? (The sum of the whole is worth less than the sum of the parts?)

    I know of a church right now that would die for that organ. Instead, I've given them one of mine to use until either they stop using organ all together, or can afford a nicer one than the one I gave them.

    There are deals to be found, but aligning the right resources at the right time is tricky. Evidently, he has both. There have been many discussions about his dealings, so no need to re-hash them here. That said, $139,450.00 is a bit high for that instrument!

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 4 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony)
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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