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Thread: Motor Control - Reed Relay

  1. #21
    pp Pianissimo dannicdem's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Want to close the loop on this issue.

    The driver had normal measurements I so bypassed the capacitor in series with the horn driver it worked perfectly! The replacement is now installed and this bad boy is LOUD and working perfectly!

    Many thanks to the experts and their contributions!

    Best!

    Dan D.
    Leslie 31H Type 2 x2
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    Leslie 710 x2
    Leslie 2101
    Hammond Concorde 2312M
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    Nord Electro 4D
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  2. #22
    ppp Pianississmo tone's Avatar
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    Hey all,
    Happy to find this thread. New at this forum here..
    I also have a 130 and have some motor circuit trouble.

    My Low speeds works great, but high speed doesn't operate. Just a sort of stuck hum sound coming from motors.

    I took out the motor circuit and motor assembly as well. I ran some basic AC voltage tests during performance to compare between the performance of low speed circuit and high speed circuit, mainly around the relays.

    I am focusing around the relays because the relay for the high speed seems to have busted open at some point. (I just got his thing for 50$ with condition unknown). On the side of the relay there is a half broken fragment of wire that can be grabbed with pliers and freely pulled away. One end is still attached, but clearly a break has occurred in the middle area of relay.

    Voltage/ohms tests.. sure enough, the obvious, during operation of the low circuit (performing well) the impedance between what i believe to be the two conductive ends of the relay have about a zero impedance. The bad relay, during operation (attempted anyways) there is a resistance there above 1Megaohm.

    During Low operation, D17 (is this whats referred to as a "triad"?) has all three pins measuring at something like 77 VAC.
    During High operation, D12's middle pin (T2) measures the same 77 VAC but the outer pins both measure 33 VAC.

    The way i am inititating modes is by jumping the 11pin connector's Pin 5 and Pin 6 together at all times, and then connecting that to Pin 7 for high and switching to pin 8 for low. I believe this is an exact replication of the external control unit, minus the LED section of the control unit circuit.

    The problem with the high is NOW not the common issue where the lower motor doesn't fully retract. The lower motor did have that issue, i can tell, because i had to pull it down and readjust the bolts to get it up better. So, my theory is that perhaps the lower motor being in constant contact USED TO be the problem, but when someone kept trying to switch on the high speed without luck it burned out the reed relay?? Is this possible?

    However, i tried jumping the busted reed relay and that did nothing. I didn't take measurements because frankly it was really tight quarters and i was worried about shorting something with the jumpers and testers i have on hand.

    Could it be that both the reed relay and the D12 ("triad"?) are busted? They both got burned out?

    Really looking forward to hearing this thing in high speed. It sounds great in low. I have two different external ampeg amps that i'm trying out using directly connected to the lower speaker. Not going to bother with the upper speaker. One is a B-15N, and one is a Jet-12. Bass amp and guitar amp. Really fun stuff.

    I do have my leslie powered by a Variac right now, but i had already tried everything out with direct power. I am interested in using the variac to adjust speed. In low speed the results are perfect, anywhere between 80 and 115. Interestingly, there is a very hard cutoff point where the leslie shuts off. It's like 116. The leslie simply shuts off. Protection circuit maybe?

    Again, for those concerned, the variac was not used at all during all of my initial trials getting things running. I only hooked up the variac just recently, so the variac did not cause the issues i have.

    There are seemingly very mixed opinions on variac use those, all from reputable experienced folks!

  3. #23
    ff Fortissimo Sweet Pete's Avatar
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    Your issue is most likely mechanical and having those motors 'set' correctly is important.
    Maybe you overcompensated a little which is totally normal for a first timer.
    I take my motor stacks out to a jig where I can mount,power up and adjust them.
    Making these adjustments in tight quarters is fine if you know what the issue is.
    Worn out spring kits,wobbling armatures and other things can mess up your speed switching.
    I take some 400 grit sandpaper to 'round' the rubber o-ring if worn flat; on the large pulley between motors.
    This is the main reason to get the fast motor some 'external' AC! Once that o-ring is determined good....
    I carefully inspect with a magnifier(old eyes) to make sure the height of the pulley on the motor shaft will also match the 'spring' of the slow motor!
    Fine tuning the lock down nut on the adjustment shaft is easy once everything matches.

    There are diagrams in the Leslie manual for the motor stack or stacks.And written service instructions.
    A100/147 B2/147 A102/222 M102/145 M111/145 L133/770 1937 Northern Hammond(third one built) BCV/122 NordStage2 EX88 Yamaha MOX6,Neo Ventilator
    Radial J type DI's ,Mogami Starquad wiring ,various Yorkville Powered Speakers,Allen+HeathMixWiz3,Behringer X32,SWR Pro220 bass amp,Fender ProReverb

  4. #24
    ppp Pianississmo tone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet Pete View Post
    Your issue is most likely mechanical and having those motors 'set' correctly is important.
    Maybe you overcompensated a little which is totally normal for a first timer.
    I take my motor stacks out to a jig where I can mount,power up and adjust them.
    Making these adjustments in tight quarters is fine if you know what the issue is.
    Worn out spring kits,wobbling armatures and other things can mess up your speed switching.
    I take some 400 grit sandpaper to 'round' the rubber o-ring if worn flat; on the large pulley between motors.
    This is the main reason to get the fast motor some 'external' AC! Once that o-ring is determined good....
    I carefully inspect with a magnifier(old eyes) to make sure the height of the pulley on the motor shaft will also match the 'spring' of the slow motor!
    Fine tuning the lock down nut on the adjustment shaft is easy once everything matches.

    There are diagrams in the Leslie manual for the motor stack or stacks.And written service instructions.
    Thank you for your help, although i'm genuinely confused how i could have overcompensated since the issue already existed which is why i opened things up. What exactly are you referring to when saying i may have over compensated? I haven't done anything to the high speed motor at all, other than detach the lower motor's shaft from the rubber o ring so that the high speed motor could spin freely and then i tested things and still the high speed motor doesn't spin. From my understanding, the high speed motor should work on its own without the o ring ever coming into contact with the low speed shaft.

    I also would be surprised if there was nothing wrong with my high speed electronics.. the reed relay is not creating contact, but instead a large resistance, and the triad has different looking voltages than the low speed triad.

  5. #25
    ff Fortissimo Sweet Pete's Avatar
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    Sorry if I misread/understood your post. In the past I've changed triacs in Leslie 760's to get speed switching issues resolved.
    Also had motor overheating because the half wave AC was still working 'fast' while in chorale.....simple half hour unsoldering and reinstalling new ones.
    A100/147 B2/147 A102/222 M102/145 M111/145 L133/770 1937 Northern Hammond(third one built) BCV/122 NordStage2 EX88 Yamaha MOX6,Neo Ventilator
    Radial J type DI's ,Mogami Starquad wiring ,various Yorkville Powered Speakers,Allen+HeathMixWiz3,Behringer X32,SWR Pro220 bass amp,Fender ProReverb

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