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Thread: Re: Are new types of pipe stops/ranks invented anymore?

  1. #71
    pp Pianissimo Eddy67716's Avatar
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    I should have said Pungent where I said weird.

  2. #72
    ff Fortissimo toodles's Avatar
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    Not all Krummhorns are excessively pungent, some are just reedy--it is a stop that varies quite a bit. But adding flutes to it at various pitches can help add body or emphasize certain harmonics. It is a common registration technique.

  3. #73
    mp Mezzo-Piano AllenAnalog's Avatar
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    Taking off from another thread (with many thanks to Momboc for originally posting this) and pumping a little excitement into this thread, how about a Furby rank?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYLBjScgb7o

    Or a flamethrower rank?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HsJTpjANhg
    Last edited by AllenAnalog; 02-12-2018 at 04:48 AM.
    Larry

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  4. #74
    ppp Pianississmo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    My idea isn’t a new organ stop but a couple of ideas that could help reduce the size of the organ. I’ve mentioned these ideas before in another thread someone started about building a positive theatre organ.

    One idea I have is organ pipes that are polyphonic which means organ pipes that can play more than one note. It’s not something I’d recommend applying throughout an entire instrument (unless you wanted a microtonal organ) but I think it would be a benefit for the pedal division and some of bass octaves of some manual stops like the 8 foot Principle.


    The other idea (which I have mentioned in this thread before) is organ pipes that can be expressed without a swell box. I'm not aiming at replacing the swell box with this idea but to have the ability to play some ranks of pipes at different dynamic levels.

    I’ve based the design for this on an experiment that was done on the recorder. From I’ve read the dynamic range is small but it does work and it may be a benefit for having stops that can be play at two different dynamic levels.
    http://www.saers.com/recorder/Craig-TuningDevice/

  5. #75
    fff Fortississimo davidecasteel's Avatar
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    I believe there are stops that can be sort of expressed without a box--the Lieblich Gedakt is often just a regular Gedakt with a mechanism to restrict the air flow to the pipes and thus make them softer.

    David

  6. #76

    Quote Originally Posted by F Kalbrenner View Post
    My idea isnít a new organ stop but a couple of ideas that could help reduce the size of the organ. Iíve mentioned these ideas before in another thread someone started about building a positive theatre organ.

    One idea I have is organ pipes that are polyphonic which means organ pipes that can play more than one note. Itís not something Iíd recommend applying throughout an entire instrument (unless you wanted a microtonal organ) but I think it would be a benefit for the pedal division and some of bass octaves of some manual stops like the 8 foot Principle.


    The other idea (which I have mentioned in this thread before) is organ pipes that can be expressed without a swell box. I'm not aiming at replacing the swell box with this idea but to have the ability to play some ranks of pipes at different dynamic levels.

    Iíve based the design for this on an experiment that was done on the recorder. From Iíve read the dynamic range is small but it does work and it may be a benefit for having stops that can be play at two different dynamic levels.
    http://www.saers.com/recorder/Craig-TuningDevice/
    Pipes are thing that if you deprive them of wind that the scaling is based on then you are going to get a out of tune pipe. However, i know this is done in theater pipe organs, but it is a tremolo. The only way for you to get dynamics is altering both the scale and the wind supply at the same time which seems like a waste of time and resources, i said it before and i will say it again, robbing a pipe of good wind to play soft is effectively de-tune it and it is to avoided.

  7. #77
    fff Fortississimo davidecasteel's Avatar
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    And then there is this: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...C&&FORM=VDRVRV

    Wasn't there once a pipe stop that used variable sliders to change the apparent length so the same pipe could play several different notes?

    David

  8. #78
    ppp Pianississmo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    I believe there are stops that can be sort of expressed without a box--the Lieblich Gedakt is often just a regular Gedakt with a mechanism to restrict the air flow to the pipes and thus make them softer.
    Thanks for the fun fact. I remember that a long time ago I stumbled across an organ on listed in the database of the Organ Historical Trust of Australia. It was an instrument located somewhere in Sydney which had a pedal stop that could play both loud and soft.


    The polyphonic concept on the other hand I know has been done and I did list several organs (in a previous thread about a portable theatre organs) that contain pipes that can play more than one note.


    Also speaking of bizarre ideas for organ stops fruits and vegetables seem to have a nice timber and people do make musical instruments out of them.

    An example is this video of a demonstration on makeing recorders out of carrots.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un5PoTBA9QA

  9. #79
    ppp Pianississmo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    Pipes are thing that if you deprive them of wind that the scaling is based on then you are going to get a out of tune pipe. However, i know this is done in theater pipe organs, but it is a tremolo. The only way for you to get dynamics is altering both the scale and the wind supply at the same time which seems like a waste of time and resources, i said it before and i will say it again, robbing a pipe of good wind to play soft is effectively de-tune it and it is to avoided.
    Posh Cat picture.jpg

    A little something for Ben Madison called 'Posh Cat' which I did in just a couple of hours using my new Wacom tablet.
    Drawing is something that I'm still trying to get the hang of which is why I haven't coloured it in.
    I think it has come out OK. A couple of detail that I think could have been done better is the cats hand and the Martini glass and the writing could have been a little neater.
    Another detail that I'm not 100% sure about is the cats facial expression. To me it feels like he could be just a little more unimpressed.

  10. #80
    ppp Pianississmo F Kalbrenner's Avatar
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    I should have posted the design I came up with before for the dynamically controlled organ pipes since I did mention that I came up with a design.
    This is an old sketch which is a bit ruff because I don’t have a pen for my Ipad so I had to use my finger.
    As I have said before the idea comes from an article about an experimental tuning slider that is supposed to help control the dynamics on the recorder.


    http://www.saers.com/recorder/Craig-TuningDevice/



    IMG_0075.JPG


    So if I understood the tuning device in the article correctly my design works by having a rod or axle that adjusts the tuning of each of the pipes to the pressure of air that is blown into the pipes.

    One thing you're probably wondering is why is there a second rod under the foot of the pipes for controlling the air pressure when I could have just used the slider to do that.

    The reason why I’ve put axles instead of sliders into the design is because I feel that sliders would have issues with friction. Now this I suspect would probably be due to age, so it may actually be better to use sliders to control both the tuning as well as the wind pressure but I can't say for certain.


    The biggest concern that I have for my design isn’t so much ‘will it work?’ but ‘is it practical?’ As Tim Hunkin said about hand powered vacuum cleaners in TV series The Secret Life of Machines “most of these machines would have been considerably less effective than a simple dust pan and brush”. And I suspect that the same would go here as it would probably be easier to control the volume with a swell box (although I am aiming more at the idea of having the ability to play some stops at different levels of volume a little like a draw-bars on a Hammond).
    Plus the tuning slider that I based my design on is described in the article as having a very small dynamic range. And even for the recorder this device would seem unnecessary because according to Sarah Jeffery from the team recorder channel the recorder dose have a big dynamic range but you can be achieved it through alternate fingering.

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