What to do about pew talkers

[myorgan]

The definition of what a church service should be has changed over the years. Years ago, it was about worship, and that began with the prelude and entering the sanctuary. Today in many churches, it is about socialization and belonging to a group, therefore the location (i.e. sanctuary vs. theatre seating or tables and chairs) and entertainment lend to conversation rather than worship. Recently at the small church where I play, one congregant was carrying on a rather loud conversation while prayer requests were being given.

Of course, there is always the proactive approach--play something really loud, and then suddenly get softer and see if anyone notices. I resign myself to the 1 or 2 Amens I get after a prelude or offertory. Perhaps that's the best we can hope for in this day and age.

Michael

[Menschenstimme]

It is even worse when your cantor or choir member(s) start up a loud conversation near the console as you are playing a postlude. Why not step outside where you need not shout over the organ to converse? Why not show the organist - who is supposedly your friend and colleague - a little respect? Would they do this to someone who was singing a solo, or playing a guitar or violin or even working diligently at their computer? Of course not! Res ipsa loquitur! SIGH!!

[dw154515]

I have an idea....

[regeron]

So far, this discussion has seemed like a situation of "either/or" rather than "both."

One solution that I have found, is to shorten the prelude. When I used to play longer preludes, they quickly became wallpaper or background music. Because it resembled the muzak that you'd hear in many business or retail locations, people naturally began to talk over it.

Now, if the choir warmup is finished early enough to allow me some time, I will actually go out and greet some congregation members in their pews (if it is physically convenient to do so) then sit down to play a 3-5 minute prelude.

This style of scheduling turns the prelude into a cue that the service is beginning soon - very soon. People know that "the show is about to begin" and it actually helps to direct the dramatic action that is part of any service. Instead of endless music, while people "wait" for something to happen, the prelude is now part of the graduated approach to the service.

My muzak preludes used to simply say that "you've entered the worship space," something that most people could figure out for themselves. Now, the prelude helps to announce that the service is about to start.

To make a visual comparison, imagine sitting in a theater, waiting for a play to begin. Various things help us to recognize that starttime is approaching - doors between the theater and the lobby closing, lights dimming, curtains opening. These are cues and they are part of the process. If the lights went down and the curtains opened 15 minutes before starttime, we'd all be confused; eventually, the chatter would begin again. If this continues over a number of performances, the audience begins to realize that "the cue" really is not a cue, and they won't treat it as such. That's what had happened to my preludes in the old days.

Come to think of it, maybe we need to ask ourselves if people (with watches and various other timepieces) even need to be told that the 10am service is about to start, since it's 9:55.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I believe that real believers are actually worshipping all the time, that "life = worship," but this marks the beginning of corporate worship. With that thought in mind, the prelude is part of the transition from their private daily [literally 24/7] worship to the one hour (+/-) of corporate worship, and both the pre-prelude conversations and the prelude itself are important parts of that preparation and that transition.

[beel m]

The only this is, you cannot play "masterworks" in a couple minutes, and if you don't play them for prelude and postlude, 99% of the folks will never hear them.
As a sub, I've found that when I play the big Bach, etc., organ works, people will take note. Perhaps it's because the incumbent gave up on them and played short or "cute" pieces, I don't know.
The only caveat is that the liturgical churches prefer to have the prelude end softly. (Think Mendelssohn A-major Organ Sonata)
Bill Miller

So far, this discussion has seemed like a situation of "either/or" rather than "both."

One solution that I have found, is to shorten the prelude. When I used to play longer preludes, they quickly became wallpaper or background music. Because it resembled the muzak that you'd hear in many business or retail locations, people naturally began to talk over it.

Now, if the choir warmup is finished early enough to allow me some time, I will actually go out and greet some congregation members in their pews (if it is physically convenient to do so) then sit down to play a 3-5 minute prelude.

This style of scheduling turns the prelude into a cue that the service is beginning soon - very soon. People know that "the show is about to begin" and it actually helps to direct the dramatic action that is part of any service. Instead of endless music, while people "wait" for something to happen, the prelude is now part of the graduated approach to the service.

My muzak preludes used to simply say that "you've entered the worship space," something that most people could figure out for themselves. Now, the prelude helps to announce that the service is about to start.

To make a visual comparison, imagine sitting in a theater, waiting for a play to begin. Various things help us to recognize that starttime is approaching - doors between the theater and the lobby closing, lights dimming, curtains opening. These are cues and they are part of the process. If the lights went down and the curtains opened 15 minutes before starttime, we'd all be confused; eventually, the chatter would begin again. If this continues over a number of performances, the audience begins to realize that "the cue" really is not a cue, and they won't treat it as such. That's what had happened to my preludes in the old days.

Come to think of it, maybe we need to ask ourselves if people (with watches and various other timepieces) even need to be told that the 10am service is about to start, since it's 9:55.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I believe that real believers are actually worshipping all the time, that "life = worship," but this marks the beginning of corporate worship. With that thought in mind, the prelude is part of the transition from their private daily [literally 24/7] worship to the one hour (+/-) of corporate worship, and both the pre-prelude conversations and the prelude itself are important parts of that preparation and that transition.

[davidecasteel]

I can understand a desire for the Prelude to be more meditative, or at least to end on that note; however, the Postlude should be vigorous, loud, and assertive in order to move people out of the Sanctuary/Nave swiftly (my church has 3 Sunday morning services, with only 15 minutes between--rapid clearing out of the space is a requirement, because people are waiting in the spaces outside to come in. Long Postlude pieces are not a problem, time-wise, because they occur in the 15-minute interval where people are moving out and in. Long Preludes can be more problematical because they could take up "service" time and use up some of our Senior Pastor's coverted Sermon time (he speaks for 25 minutes, typically).

David

[regeron]

I can understand a desire for the Prelude to be more meditative, or at least to end on that note; however, the Postlude should be vigorous, loud, and assertive in order to move people out of the Sanctuary/Nave swiftly (my church has 3 Sunday morning services, with only 15 minutes between--rapid clearing out of the space is a requirement, because people are waiting in the spaces outside to come in. Long Postlude pieces are not a problem, time-wise, because they occur in the 15-minute interval where people are moving out and in. Long Preludes can be more problematical because they could take up "service" time and use up some of our Senior Pastor's coverted Sermon time (he speaks for 25 minutes, typically).

David

Just curious - does that mean that at some level, and in some situations, the postlude for one service is almost serving as the prelude to the next?

[james]

The large church where my friend plays the pipe organ each Sunday doesn't have a prelude. I listen via TV, and notice he does play the postlude really loud at times. During this time it sounds worse than a beehive with all the talking and noise.

The choir director starts the worship time by booming over the speaker they are welcome to the Sunday service which gets the talking nearly phazed out, and then goes from there with some song before the choir comes in from the back.

I just had to correct my mistakes. I sure need to proof read more carefully.

James

[davidecasteel]

regeron, if the service extends past its normal time, we have had situations where that has happened. I think our Organist has skills to cut off the Postlude (musically) to avoid that problem most times, though.

Some churches I have attended in the past have put notices at the top of the bulletins that "Lighting of the candles signifies quiet for worship" and the acolytes light the candles during the Prelude. My current church has not done that (but I've often wondered why not).

David

[regeron]

Some churches I have attended in the past have put notices at the top of the bulletins that "Lighting of the candles signifies quiet for worship" and the acolytes light the candles during the Prelude. My current church has not done that (but I've often wondered why not).

David

Hi David, Yes that idea fits in with my understanding of a dramatic crescendo, from zero or "low" until the service begins, and even within the service, there is a fluctuation of intensity, as various things happen.