roland atelier organs

[Sarina Scimeca]

hi everybody

could anybody tell me anything about the roland atelier organs. what are they like? are they reliable? etc etc

thanks in advance!!!

[Kurzweil]

Search is your friend. But you don't even have to search. These have been discussed in several threads in the last month. Just the first three pages include:

Roland BK-7 vs. AT350c
Roland Organ Question
Organs of the Nineties and Naughties (we beat it vigorously on that one)
New At-900 Platinum Edition
Atielier now under the Rodgers Umbrella

Listening to the forum members discuss this will give you a much better answer. However, we always try and support new members so you'll get direct answers too. Here's mine (every word of which will probably be found in the referenced articles):

The biggest thing Atelier has going for it is that this is a current product in production by Roland of Japan. That can only be said of a trifling few of the organs discussed on the HOME ORGANS section. Due to Roland's enormous digital synthesizer manufacturing and development division, the Ateliers are extremely up to date. I'd say that their technology is only about six years behind the synthesizer industry, which is like YESTERDAY in the organ biz. To give you an example, they recently (2007, I believe) discovered that there were solid state alternatives to the 3.5" floppy disk. They skipped over the SMART MEDIA CARD, the COMPACT FLASH, etc., even the MICRO SD and caroomed right to the USB thumb drive. In the US, the only other current available model is Lowrey. There are some new models just now appearing in Europe and Asia that look interesting but I would say that you can still count on one hand what's in production.

Atelier is largely a preset organ where ensemble sounds are concerned. That refers to diapason choruses for classical organ, tibia chorus for theater, and the various drawbar combinations for Hammond. The current series DOES give you drawbars and I haven't checked to see if they handle tibia and diapason too. The top of the line model, the AT-90 and AT-90s lets you select the FLUTE, TIBIA, or DIAPASON and let's you switch in each footage, giving you either a 0 or an 8. This probably only makes sense if you've played a Hammond before. The AT-90SL has virtual drawbars on the touchscreen. Maybe the s does also. I have one but never used the feature. The AT-900 and most of the models below it uses for-gosh-real drawbars. Classical and theater reeds are generally available individually but only from a menu whereby they can indeed be assigned to a panel button for live selection. When you use the orchestra sounds, you get most of the panel button choices, including piano, strings, brass, harp, marimba, etc. All in the home organ manufacturing business are of the belief that what most of us want are modern realistic sounds and that those theater and classical aficionados would probably buy an Allen, Rodgers, or Walker to get authentic panel layouts. I happen to be in that group and hence love the Atelier. Since ORGAN FORUM has subgroups for both theater and classical, you may perhaps assume that most on the home organ group feel similarly. Atelier can easily fool most listeners into thinking it has pipes but the organist is keenly aware of the compromises in setting up the sounds.

They are fairly reliable but certainly not unbreakable. I just blew the fuses on my At-90s subwoofer amplifier and am probably looking at buying a PCB for a couple of hundred dollars. Like a luxury car, the used price differs by anywhere from half to a tenth of the new price for all but the latest series.

[Atelier55]

I have had 4 of them and not a day's problem. Great sounds, beautiful styles. See my posts elsewhere. Kurzweil's comments are true. Not a perfect organ: boring cabinet (but not ugly, just dated), but it the atelier is much cheaper than a Lowrey. Go with the Atelier.

AT55

[cairns4me]

I have an At80SL. After replacing output transistors on woofer circuit board which were blown already when I bought it from a Roland dealer here in Aust, after waiting 7 months for the fix due to poor dealer service andthe fact that Roland Aust didn't carry spares..and refused my offer for me to pay for an airfreight satchel...due to Roland Aust ceasing to o urgent special orders from Japan so the spare parts are only ordered at fixed intervals..... HOWEVER after that was finally dealt with; I ended-up with a very nice sounding and reliable instrument.
Kurzweil & Atelier55 I agree with though, with my tech issue being more a matter of poor dealer attention and unfortunate timing as far as Roland Aust was concerned. But sound quality is superb for theatre or classical organ sounds. Orchestral voices ie Oboe, flute really excellent. Sax voices ( there are several) a bit below par.Solo Violin- again several types to choose from-I can take or leave. Ensemble Strings IMHO you need to fortify them with a dollop of Diapason or Flute to take the edge off some. Piano (again several) great to pretty outstanding. Many of us owners of these earlier models with inbuilt floppy dsk drives wish to goodness Roland would show us a bit of courtesy/loyalty/appreciation and recommend an approved brand/source for a compatible floppy to USB emulator drive to enable us to utilise USB sticks for more convenient registration/style "manoeuvers". Sarina whatever you choose or may have chosen we wish you lots of musical enjoyment

[Kurzweil]

It has been interesting watching the evolution of the Atelier piano sound. My AT-30 had "PIANO 1", strictly a mid-nineties take on what a digital piano sounded like. The AT-60r added "GRAND PIANO", which was an entire generation newer. I'm of the opinion that the previous version has no present value. Why ever use an inferior patch? The s series adds no new piano patch names but they may have improved it. Besides the better siound system, I have not noticed.

Cairns, I would like all of the information you have on your sub-woofer PCB repair. I suspect I have the same failure. To check, I intend to replace one of the fuses and see if it blows with the board removed (I have it with me at my desk). There are four transistors on the heat sink base, two J222 and two K1307. I had concluded that they might not be outputs. They seem too small to handle all of that bass power, especially when compared to the six monsters on the main board. Any information would be appreciated. I presume you bought the actual devices rather than the entire board. However, I would think them to be available from a more general parts distributor, like Mauser, alleviating the need to wait upon Roland. My board is labeled, "AT-90s WAB ASSY 71897345". It is a single channel bass circuit with a two wire feed direct to the 12" bass speaker from that board. Feel free to contact me privately if you deem this boring to the non Roland folk (and all those Atelyites with working bass channels).

[Atelier55]

I, too, have watched the evolution of pianos, both in the generations of the Ateliers, and across other brands. Even moreso in the evolution of string ensembles. When Lowrey first came out with the Symphonic strings on its TGS Symphonic Holiday around 1977, it was absolutely the best. By comparison of today, it sounds thin and dated. I always thought it was because we went from analog to synthesized sounds, to digital sampling with 8-bit, then 16-bit, then 32-bit samples, etc. Add in better sound systems and you end up with what we have today.

A reason one MIGHT want to use an older voice/patch would be to re-create an authentic sound from the decade, much like we use the various electric pianos of the 1970s to re-create a more realistic "Just the Way You Are", or "How Deep is Your Love". Regardless, the sampling rates of today's voices are nothing short of amazing.

For the record, I think I prefer the older flutes/tibias of the past, but again, personal taste.

[cairns4me]

Kurzweil..I dismantled the Atelier and did diagnostic on the board, ( which was labelled AT-90s WAB ASSY 71897345, as is yours ) as directed by my dealer's in-house technician (well imagine being an out-house technician ....) by telephone. My dealer is approx 3 hrs away by air....
We verified using multimeter on the 2 wires that go to the woofer there was around 9 ohms reading so that indicated the 8 ohm woofer had not shorted its voicecoil etc. So then I removed the board and sent it down to the dealer. Because I complained for several months about the Atelier being faulty from the day it arrived the dealer tech decided to try sourcing the trannies from other than useless Roland Australia. ( yeah I'm still pretty psst) The tech somehow located a 2nd hand board and cannibalised it. He said he had needed to replace several sets of these previously so he was happy to have found 2 boards so he would have another spare set. Apparently these trannies were made by Toshiba ( I think he said) and they were a specific to Roland version. So he could not find any suitable substitutes from Mauser etc. But I can't be so sure about ANYTHING much I was told by that dealer's staff..... Kurzweil that's about all I can tell you. But if the Atelier's woofer amp is a weak point ( I feel it could be so) perhaps we'd all be better off plugging a separate, well specified, subwoofer into the main out as a mono feed and revel in even deeper cathedral-like Rodgers influenced pipe organ bass !!!! Seeing as we can't rely on Roland to admit it and release a suggested fix by way of more robust components and make them available to owners particularly those of us in remote areas.....My annoyance is based on the Atelier being so darned expensive to buy and the perceived Prestige of ownership which is seemingly let-down by a dreadfully low level of apparent customer care, rather like buying a used car !!! ie instantly 70% or more devalued and "bugxer-off we got your dough now we sell a newer model so you now mean nothing to us".......so if the new organ industry does die-off just who WOULD be to blame? Now I guess I've stirred the pot haha..Cheers all.

[Kurzweil]

I already thought of the amp by-pass idea. Wouldn't even have to have the speaker cabinet, as there is nothing inherently wrong with the one built in. Well, maybe ONE thing. I used this organ to play the Wizard of Oz at a school and on some of the loud portions I felt something like a breeze on my knees. I checked mine with an ordinary C-cell battery. You get a quite pop and the coil moves in or out, depending upon polarity.

I have a a stereo power amp connected to the ambiance outputs of the Roland and feeding a pair of Conn pipe speakers across the room. If I am unsuccessful in repairing the board, I'll drive the Conns from a single channel and use the other channel to back feed to the internal woofer using a line out, as you mention. But I want the thing working the way it was designed. Except for its obvious lack of reliability, the board looks like a quality structure. Of course 60's models Jaguar automobiles looked very nice also.

There are slews (that means LOTS in Georgia) of those three legged flat transistors on this board and most of them stand up. There are four and only four bolted down to the heat sink so I am assuming that these are the only ones that are likely to blow those two fuses with such flair and brilliance.

[indianajo]

There are slews (that means LOTS in Georgia) of those three legged flat transistors on this board and most of them stand up. There are four and only four bolted down to the heat sink so I am assuming that these are the only ones that are likely to blow those two fuses with such flair and brilliance.

Aaah, actual data. 3 legged flat transistors. Probably TO220 package. Common as dirt. Two questions to answer, are they FET or junction transistors? Are they TO220 (gate on left leg) or TO202 (gate in the middle leg).
If FET, they are probably 2SJ222 and 2SK1307 from Renesas corp who purchased the toshiba line. Oriental suppliers seem to need to leave the "2S" off to save precious ink. At least these are not in-house numbers. Mouser doesn't stock them. You can get the datasheets on www.datasheetcatalog.com. To check, see if the line from the driver transistor goes from the heat tab of those transistors to the left leg of the transistors on the heat sink. 35 amp for 1 microsecond is pretty wimpy, and the thermal resistance to heat sink chart, not a spec, doesn't even have a static DC number, only pulsed ones.
They are probably not very good transistors as mosfet's go. You could probably match them into something from Fairchild/aka TI, for about $.40 each.
Changing MOSFET's requires a grounded tip soldering iron and a static collar on you, or a humidifier. (Or do the work in the Ohio Valley any month but July or a cold snap in January). They can be blown up by static.

[Kurzweil]

Indianajo, please note post #5 above. They are as you state. From left to right (legs UP and facing me) J222, K1307, J222, K1307. I have a soldering station and a wrist band that I could attach to the head sink. On the other hand, steaming up the bathroom would serve a dual purpose. I wondered why they are not all the same and alternate as described above. They are described as power switches but it looks like they must serve as power amplifiers. To examine the traces accurately, I'll need to remove the PCB from the heat sink along with breaking the heat sinking connection of these four devices. I have no problem with replacing them all and can probably do a proper job of it. I'd like to be able to stick a photo in with this text, like that lovely Allen Ensemble in another thread.

edit: I looked them up in your catalog reference and see that one is a P channel and the other an N channel, both Hitachi or Renesas MOS FET's. I pulled it apart and it looks like the outside two devices might have heated up the grease. I printed out the data sheets and will try to locally source them or their equivalents.