Unification in a home/chapel organ

[hartleymartin]

I'm looking further into the possibility of building a small positiv organ to put in my garage. I would be using an electro-mechanical chest (ie direct electric action).

The plan at the moment is to purchase a second-hand principal 2' set of 61 pipes. I would make 12 open wood pipes for a bass octave and have a unified 4', 2-2/3', 2' and 1-3/5' rank using a 56-note manual (the very top c pipe would be unused). I would then also make 56 stopped wood pipes at 8' pitch. I also plan a possible future expansion to extend this rank by 12 notes for a 16' pedal stop. I may also allow for a future 8' open (maybe from Tenor C) and perhaps a 4' flute, which would have their own independant ranks of pipes. With the direct electric action I could use a modular design which would make future expansion easier.

My main question is whether or not the 2-2/3' and 1-3/5' (Nazard and Teirce) ranks would work well. Would there be intonation/tuning issues? I plan to use equal temperament tuning, but I am aware that this is less than the ideal of a separate pipe for every pitch.

First thing is first though, I have to figure out numerous details and buy some pipes!

[michaelhoddy]

In a small room, unifying mutations from a unison principal rank is going to be screaming loud (not to mention slightly out of tune). You usually don't run into even straight, properly tuned principal mutations unless you're in a larger room where distance blends them better, and even then they're often scaled several notes smaller than the unison. It could be just my preference, but if you have to produce tempered mutations from a unit rank, the flute is a far better choice because it'll be quieter, and the lesser harmonic content of a flute will mask the beating to some degree especially at close range.

[j reimer]

Hartley,

What you are planning is do-able technically, but as Michael points out, the musical results are likely to be less than satisfying in a domestic situation. You are also taking on a project which can become addictive, and will mean countless hours of your life. I believe you need to assess what your main concerns are - whether it is pipe sounds per se, or whether your main interest is in playing organ music.

If the latter, then before starting this project, you should at least investigate just how good and satisfying virtual organs are these days. It is many months since I invited you to come and hear what I and others are achieving using jOrgan, and you have not found it possible to come to my place and discover this. I am prepared to bring my equipment to your place one weekend, if this would help (I believe you live not far from Toongabbie, in Sydney's Western Suburbs).

John Reimer

[Havoc]

Some questions, some opiniated remarks

- do you want to play or build organ(s)?

Think about this first! Like John says, this is going to become addictive and there is a chance that organbuilding is going to replace organ playing. Nothing wrong with that. But the chance is also there that it is going to be a (very) long time before you can play on your "own" organ. I have somewhere the (german) book on home organ building and they give some guide numbers on how long it takes for a basic skilled woodworker with a well equiped shop to build parts.

I tought about building one myself and after reading that gave up. Got a small second hand pipe organ that needed some work (so it was cheap). Spend about a year to get it set up and working. Just not having the right tools, experience and materials can be a serious setback or expensive. The work that now needs to be done needs an organ builder.

- what do you plan to build apart from those pipes? The console? Keyboards and pedals? Windchest?
- how good are you at woodwork and how well equiped are you?
- how much experience of organ building do you have?

Buying some pipes is one thing, making them another thing, getting them to sound well together in a given room... that what sets apart organ builders from woodworkers. Problem with organ building is that it is a game of experience. The more experience you have, the easier it gets and the better the results. Part of the problem for amateur organ builders is that it is hard to obtain information. You want to build a harpischord or guitar or lute? You can find plans, parts, materials even kits. Organs? Nada.

- unification.

I think you are overdoing it. Part of the beauty of the organ are the different sounds it can produce. Also from other of your posts I get you're interested in the smaller repertoire. Then -if you're going to build- why not minimise the unification to the foundation and split the rest. You could take it in stages.

- virtual organs (aka Hauptwerk)

I took a look at those as well. My conclusion was that a good virtual setup including: keyboards with wooden keys, pedals, drawknobs, benchwork, a pc that can handle anything trown at it, a good multichannel soundcard, a good multichannel DA convertor, a good set of amps, a very good set of speakers and all the needed software would set me back more than a second hand pipe organ. Another thing that comes with it and that is often overlooked is that such systems often become a goal in itself. You "want" certain sample sets, you'll need to upgrade to more channels, etc. Kind of a threadmill like pc upgrades when you're a gamer.

They do offer some advantages: you don't have to tune them, you can play different temperaments and you can play any type of organ you like. The limitations are the speakers and the keyboards: bad speakers will sound bad with any sample set and synth keyboards feel mushy whatever sample set you select.

But if you want a small positive, then why not go the whole length and go for a pure mechanical action? For the music you asked about it will add playing pleasure, it isn't harder to build (the windchest and pipes are the same) and you don't have to mix mechanics and electricity. Another option would be to look for a small second hand organ. Advantage of that route is that you can have reasonably fast something that works. And it can always serve as a base for a new project or keep you playing through a scratch build.

Do search a bit on the forum. There are a few threads where we discussed building home organs and there must be links.

[hartleymartin]

Thus far I've just been nutting it out as an intellectual exercise to see if it can really be done. I suppose on advantage of of using flute (stopped pipes) would be that they are half the size of the principals!

I did have to re-jig a few things recently. I was able to obtain a working Baldwin Cinema ii for a good price (not free, but good enough) - the main attraction being the 30 note concave radial pedalboard for practice. I know it probably isn't AGO spec, but it is a damned side closer than the 25-note flat boards that I was able to obtain.

I'm not a builder. I was looking at having the pipes in a universal windchest and controlled via a midi console. It would be a long-term project.

[hartleymartin]

On reflection, if I bought a 2' flute rank I could just extend it down another 2 octaves by making 24 wood pipes and use a single unified rank, perhaps adding an open 4' rank and another 12 pipes for a stopped 16' at a later date. This would make a much more managable home instrument. The whole thing would be electric/midi action. Trying to build an unified tracker action instrument like this would be a bit difficult. With electric control I could theoretically set it up with a split manual between C/C# or as a two -manual instrument.

I'm interested in making a home instrument in addition to my electronic ones. I just find that I love playing an instrument with real pipes, even if it is only a little one.

Like I said, this is a long-term project

[hartleymartin]

In case you were wondering, I was using dimensions and instructions from this website for the pipes I planned to make:

For the 4' Open wood rank: http://www.rwgiangiulio.com/construction/prestant/
For the 8' Bourdon Pipes to extend the 2' flute rank down 2 octaves: http://www.rwgiangiulio.com/construction/bourdon/

I'm in two minds about whether to use a 56-note manual, or to go for a 61-note manual and just have the Tierce run out a few notes away from the top.

Using midi set-up I could later re-configure a console to 2 manuals using a couple of midi keyboards (I currently own 2x 49-note midi keyboards as it is).

I've also thought that I could use the 4' Open borrowed to 8' and share the bass octave with the 8' stopped pipes.

Theoretically I could then end up with an organ of 153 pipes and the following stops:

8', 4' Open
8', 4', 2' Flute
2-2/3, 1-3/5' from Flute rank (I would want the Tierce to fill-in for a reed rank)
16' Bordoun (extended down from flute rank)

So, maybe 8 stops from 153 pipes?

In three stages:

Stage 1: Use 61 2' flute pipes and make 24 stopped wood pipes for 8' and 4' stops
Stage 2: Make 12 stopped pipes for 16' Bordoun (mounted off-chest)
Stage 3: Make 56 (or 61) open wood pipes to add 8' and 4' open

The windchest would be designed with the additional ranks in mind from the outself and the 16' would be mounted off-chest.

[Havoc]

I would make at least one 8' foundation rank not unified. Reason for this is that you then always have something that can be used to pick out a melody line and that will not be influenced by borrowing. I know it sucks having to get 61 of the largest pipes extra but I think in the long run it will be worth it.

I would also give the mutations their own rank. Gives more freedom to scale them.

Maybe even the 16' for the pedals separate. I say this because I found it out on my organ. It came with a 16' on the pedals as one and only register. I tought it unneeded for a home/practise instrument but I'm glad I have it. Certainly with music that uses long drawn out pedal notes it is nice that it doesn't keep a well used part of the manual occupied. For reason of space and cost they made the 3 lowest notes as "acoustic" ones but that is something that is going to be changed. But it will need a new windchest for that.

My take on your proposal would be:
8' open (61)
8' 4' 2' flute (85)
2'-2/3 1'-3/5 (61) let the 1-3/5 use the top octave double, they would become too small anyway
16' (32)

[hartleymartin]

My plans are essentially to have a rank of stopped pipes unified at 16', 8', 4', 2-2/3', 2' and 1-3/5' and then another rank of open pipes. The rank of open pipes will be available at 8' and 4', but the bottom octave of the 8' will be borrowed from the stopped pipe rank. The 16' would only be available from the pedals. The plan is to use pallet magnet solenoids (or whatever they're properly called) on a universal windchest. This would (theoretically) make future expansion easy enough, or a second windchest could be added.

Assuming I stick with a 56-note manual, I will have 96 pipes for the stopped rank and then 44 for the open. I want to make the instrument as compact as possible - preferably about the size of a cabinet. The use of the mutations is basically to avoid adding expensive reed pipes. It'll be a few months before I hear back from the organ builder about the 2' flute pipes and probably years before I ever finish building the darned thing.

[hartleymartin]

Not wanting to let the very top pipe go to waste, I figured that I might look into some sort of computer/midi control which would allow me to switch between A415, A440 and A466 (concertn pitch and up and down one semitone). I would only have to make one more bass pipe and another open wood pipe. So that makes 61 pipes bought, 37 stopped pipes home made and 45 open pipes home made. 56 note manual and 30 note pedalboard.

I could, theoretically go ahead and have a second manual using all the same pipes duplexed somehow, but I have not gotten that far into the planning!