I have a persistent question concerning whether or not it is likely that the organ I am trying to play is arranged oddly or it is "old school" or an organ set for church, a Baptist church, where I live. I note a pair of what one is supposed to call expression pedals, and a crescendo pedal, too. The expression pedals are for the Swell and Choir division each (nothing for the General division), and the way they are set is that the pedals have to be pushed down for softer tones, which: I cannot imagine how anyone can tell the minimal difference really. I thought that pipe organs have a way to set the volume off when the pedal is up, and really loud when it is down. The Crescendo pedal works that way. I know I have heard great variations in dynamics on all the organs I have ever heard on the radio. On the organ I am describing, up means that the boxes are closed, supposedly, a softer volume somehow, and down means the boxes are open, which is supposed to be louder. Anyway, I was wondering if this is similar to other organs on which artists actually perform. Also, I am confused as to how one follows the suggestions of arrangements which are designed by composers/arrangers for organ, especially while the organ I am describing has limited stops and couplers and three manuals. I realize, too, that some organists will have worked out dynamics just by pressing pistons and stop buttons, manually or automatically. Perhaps I have not gone the distance to "arrange" the many compositions for the organ I am playing. This leaves me unable to perform anything, while I am unsure how to regard dynamics as a challenge or impossibility on this organ. Obviously, hymns are able to be played adequately, by just changing combinations, but loud and soft in the same or any sort of composition seems quite tedious. It can also be someone else's simple idea that the only loud and soft pedal was a Crescendo-type pedal and other pedals are there without really being true to their purpose. I would appreciate someone's interest in how other organs are arranged as constructed. Also, you may note that it is my regard that I am not quite a rank amateur or beginner, while attempting the things I am trying to play on the organ I am describing. While I have the privilege to make my choices of registrations, I can ultimately work it out, I think, but if I have other composer's/arranger's suggestions, and for some composers it might be a tacet suggestion, actually, which still is impossible. and then I am somewhat lost. What is my actual work supposed to be?
When the crescendo pedal is in the totally "off" position and the expression pedals are lined up with it, they are in the box closed position (softest possible volume). Pushing the expression pedal forward/down, etc., opens the boxes to allow the maximum volume to escape. Simple, huh?
Thanks for your reply. It would be seeming simple architecture.
I am trying to find out why the pedals on the organ I use is opposite what you have described, why there is no General expression pedal and why the softest position is really not so soft you can barely hear it. It is mf or even f instead. I guess it has something to do with finances, hymn playing, or general knowledge of the builder and the architecture of the instrument or the building in which it is placed. Maybe none of this is relevant to anyone having an idea about how to have built an organ.
On the organ I am using, the "up" position is contrast to what you have described, meaning that when all the pedals are lined up at the "off" position for the Crescendo, the boxes of the Swell and Choir are closed, not open. Further, it seems that the organ builder forgot to put a large variation in the dynamic of the open and closed positions of these two divisions, which means I can barely tell what is softer when the pedals are fully down or up. I thought it was not what I should have expected, while I am sure that I am not supposed to resort to using the Crescendo pedal completely, for all the dynamic changes. On the other hand, if that is what the organ builder intended, I did not expect that sort of organ technique either. So, what I am left doing is tryng to push and pull stops with some sort of sleight-of-hand thing, like a magician, which is further what I do not really think of as organ technique. How should one expect to use pedals? My comment that there is a great deal of dynamic change in what I hear on the Internet means I think organists are using pedals more extensively than just pulling stops and playing piston combinations. Maybe I am wrong. I need to know, since I have only the one reference for playing an organ. Another thing is that artists seem to pick compositions which fit the organ they are playing. I cannot decide what is and is not truly applicable to the organ I am playing, just because it has not been stated, while I am left to discover what I can.
I await further interesting replies. Thanks.
Is this a pipe organ or an electronic? If it is a pipe organ perhaps the swell shutters are not closing all the way.Speak to your serviceman .
Jerry F Bacon ♫♫
All of the expression pedals should be set such that when in their most vertical position (what is usually called "closed") the controlled sounds should be softest, and when in the most horizontal position (toed forward) they are "open" and the sound is the loudest. (Think of the way the accelerator pedal in a car works.) The Crescendo pedal should work similarly, with the softest combination (or even none) at most vertical position and loudest at most horizontal. (Of course, many Crescendo pedals can be reprogrammed, so if that has been done all bets are off.)
Pipe organs don't usually have a pedal that works generally, although some do have an arrangement that allows both expression pedals to move together as one. The "Great" division is usually not under expression and loudness is only possible by stop selection. Electronic organs sometimes do have a single pedal that alters the loudness of the entire instrument, but seldom is this found on a pipe organ.
David
Yes, by all means speak to your service technician. What could have happened to make the expression pedals work in reverse (and what I have encountered on some of the organs on which I have taken over service) is that the original expression shade motors (most likely electro-pneumatic) were replaced by new, entirely electric motors. The contacts on the expression shoe were the wrong type. These contacts either make contact to move the shades or break contact to move the shades. The new, entirely electric shade operators (a Peterson RC 150 for example) by and large require "make" contacts where the old electro-pneumatic units require "break" contacts. The fix is either the addition of a voltage polarity inverter, simply flipping the "chopper" over on the shade roller or fitting a new shade shoe contact assembly. Again; take it up with your service technician. Of course, what I am speaking of applies from my pipe - organ - only expertise. But I should imagine that the same principals apply to the electronic substitutes.Originally Posted by pictureroll
As far as the register crescendo: These things were originally developed for special effects by late 19th / early 20 century German organ builders. They aren't really intended to be used as a general registration device although the too often are. It should also be adjustable. Modern pipe organs with solid state controls often allow the organist to adjust them from the console. They can be sometimes be adjusted via a series of jumper wires inside the console or, If nothing else, by bending contacts on the roller. Once again, consult your service technician and while you are at it, you might also ask him / her about effective registration techniques for this particular instrument. Often service technicians are skilled organs and might also be aware of "tricks" such as the ability of pistons to function beyond what one might think. For instance, many times cancel pistons can be set up as general pistons.
Good luck.
Thanks again for your replies.
While I have no idea whether the shutters of either the Swell or Choir division are closing all the way, I think I have heard what can have happened, but I am not really going to ask the church why the organ operates the way it does.
Thanks also for some clarification of what is possibly more usual.
It is a pipe organ I am discussing here, with forty-odd stops and three manuals, not very full in any way, to which I am trying to accommodate my wish to play.
Not knowing whether it is a guess one might suggest, there is more explanation needed to cover what must be a fine point as to why anyone would have thought of leaving out wider volume and dynamics, and setting the Swell and Choir Expression pedals in a manner which is opposite (closed in the down position). Is this due to architecture of the organ, the room, or an artistic notion of someone who really does not feel anyone should require anything else? I mean: really? Is there no full dynamic controlled by a pedal? Perhaps, I am misreading music. I see where the Crescendo Pedal is sometimes employed, but I cannot figure how it works even gradually introduced, while being judicious when the resort is first that one has to choose the right stops which seem not to infer that any pedal is used, which I am calling here the "sleight-of-hand" notion.
My suggestion is that I would have to press a piston, or change a stop, on almost every beat of the music I am trying to play, just to get the wider dynamic effect for which I would have used an expression pedal. For me not to resort to the constant use of the Crescendo pedal, which does not work for its having been programmed in a certain order of stops, forte to fortissimo, my resolution might be to play, by choosing stops and piston combinations, without wishing for great dynamic controls to be employed. I suppose choosing stops which will lead into the highly expressive parts will not make it so obvious that I have employed the Crescendo pedal.
Is that a sort of guide for all the other music of the organ?
The Crescendo Pedal is designed to "draw" selected sets of stops in a consecutive manner, usually set up to create a condition where louder sets of stops are selected as the pedal is depressed. Although louder usually also indicates that more stops are selected, to achieve the 30 to 50 "steps" in loudness, some stops may be drawn in a set and then released in a later one, only to be drawn again farther down the range. This permits soft stops to be used to smooth out the levels. For example, the very first position of the pedal might draw only a Dulciana 8' (which is usually very soft); the next might release the Dulciana and draw a Stopped Flute 8' (which might be a little louder); next might release the Stopped Flute and draw a Diapason 8'; then the Dulciana might be added to the Diapason; then the Dulciana might be released and the Stopped Flute drawn with the Diapason; then maybe all 3 would be drawn; etc. By carefully choosing the stops to be in play at each position of the pedal, a smooth sequence of registrations that get progressively louder can be achieved. Usually even the various couplers get involved in this process, and usually all keyboards (manuals and pedals) are adjusted such that they could play well together at any point.
Different builders connect the Crescendo Pedal steps to work in different ways: some of them totally override any manually-drawn stops, and some merely add to whatever is already drawn (which may mean in some positions of the pedal not much, if any, change is noted depending on what has been manually drawn).
David
David
My little observation of the Crescendo pedal is that it adds and changes combinations about 13-15 times that I can hear. I have no indicators to judge how far it will have been depressed.
As for the other pedals, I noticed the two signal lights which are given for the divisional expression pedals do not show, which means something else has occurred, for their use. Is there a definite explanation or effect for this?
I suspect that this occurred sometime after the beginning of the installation in 1973, because people were not happy with the "loud" nature of the organ when it was first installed, which only meant that they did not like the former organist's use of the trumpet stops. A former organ was dismantled and the oboe stop from it was added to the present one later. Let me say that, even if the church thought it was getting the highest sort of costly organ, finances surely prevented the most extravagant sort of organ having stops of a wider and more balanced nature, which would make better convenience. I would have to run through the list to give you an accurate description, which I am not sure anyone wants to hear. It has a very loud trumpet stop which is limited to within two octaves, which I can suggest for use in only one composition I might plan to play. I am not sure whether that is the thing that was offensive so many years ago. I am almost sure they quieted the organ from its full sound, as immediately as they installed it. This reminds me of the story told to me that the organ built at FBC Jackson was "corrected" to fit into the space, as one might say, for another 2 million dollars. What is my criticism supposed to be? I have no idea whether it has to do with someone making a serious mistake, or it is unfortunate that an organ built or suggested one way does not really fit a room in which it will be installed. Oh, well. Let me leave that.
People are sometimes "horrified" by what I will term "long-hair" music, which is the a fully disrespectful term to those who play organ well, when people criticize the nature of volume which they did not expect. I will just say that there are people who cannot take music as it was intended. They want Lawrence Welk's "Champagne" music instead. So, church music should never be over loud or affective in any manner. I had one lady ask me once did (I) know anything with a melody, or did (I) just play chords?
I have been trying to find music as it was intended in my church for years, if you see what I mean. It explains why the church is afraid to let the sound come out. Oh, yes, let there be some rock star and loud amplification, too loud for one to really listen to quality. It is the same thing: I am "horrified" that people are missing the music, I guess one might say. I do appreciate the idea that people think they are doing their best.
Please accept my kindest regards, while I did not mean to rant in the least.
Someone could answer the question about the divisional expression pedal signal lights, if they would be kind. Thanks for your help in the meanwhile.
Well, I'd still like to know who built this organ and if the shade motors were changed. It is also a possibility that if a new console were installed someone might have goofed when setting up the expression pedals and that's why they work backwards. NO professional builder would wire expression pedals and I have never even seen an amateur organ builder make that particular mistake. As far as the congregation's displeasure with your choice - that's another discussion entirely. And regarding crescendo and diminuendo markings in actual organ music; It depends on the particular school of music. In the French Romantic for example it indicates only the use of the shades - the Recit Expressive - not adding or subtracting stops. Baroque music is all terrace dynamics. You don't need to worry about crescendo and diminuendo unless you want to play it like Virgil Fox did.
I'm, also curious who is servicing the organ or if it even receives regular service at all. Is it only serviced when something breaks or when it gets so out of tune that it's unbearable? Is the maintenance outfit one that specializes in pipe organs or one that specializes in electronics and does their best with pipe organs. I took over maintenance of a military chapel organ that had been serviced by the latter and I found all kinds of unprofessional things; pipes with duct tape on them, holes poked in toes to fix ciphers and a truly bizarre temperament. Once again, the backwards expression pedals should be set right by your service outfit. If they didn't notice or are unwilling / unable to do so, fire them. If you have trouble finding a pipe organ maintenance outfit in your area, call up someone in the local chapter of the AGO and ask them to recommend one. But first, ask your present service tech about the problem. And BTW, where are you?
Cheers
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks