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Thread: settings for an Allen organ

  1. #1

    settings for an Allen organ

    Hello, I'm new to this site and new to playing the organ. I'm normally the backup piano player for the services and I've been invited to play the organ for our church. Could someone give me suggestions on which stops to use on an Allen Protege (2 manuel) for hymn playing. I've tired different settings and speaker volume and can't seem to find the right balance. I've been told the previous organist always had the volume up so loud it drowned the piano and singing. I'm trying to find a volume/sound that compliments the piano and adds to the singing not overbears everything. FWIW, the church is Baptist, with about 200 members.

    Thank you so much,

  2. #2
    Moderator jbird604's Avatar
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    So glad you're willing to give this a try! Churches need organists, and especially Baptist churches, at least where I live. If you have adequate piano playing skills and a willing attitude you should be able to make some good music on the organ with a little practice. If your experience is like mine, the people will love you for it and will show their appreciation frequently. Your church's congregational singing will be tremendously improved with the right kind of organ leadership.

    I was a Baptist all my life until I became a Christian (that's my little joke now that I've made the leap from the SBC to the Disciples of Christ denomination) and have a real heart for Baptist congregations and their singing. I played the organ for the same Baptist congregation for 17 years before changing denominations last year. I watched sadly as many of the Baptist churches in my area ditched the organ for a praise band, but my own church staunchly and proudly sang traditional hymns and gospel songs and used the organ and piano as primary instruments. I believe that more and more folks will tire of the rock and roll showtime churches and will eventually long for meaningful, stable worship that is found in the churches that stayed true to our musical traditions, and that's why I'm so happy to hear about your church and your willingness to learn the organ!

    People vary greatly in their expectations of what the organ is to do in the service, or how much contribution it should make to the hymn-singing. My philosophy is that the organ should "lead" the hymns with power and authority tempered by grace and understanding! That is to say, the organ should be prominent enough to do its job of undergirding the hymns with clear sustained pitches, but not so loud or bright as to make people hold their ears. In a church where the piano shares the duties with the organ, the organist must be sensitive to the preferences of some folks to hear the piano as well as the organ, though the truth is that a piano is not by nature nearly as loud as an organ.

    The organ need not be loud and bellowing in order to undergird the singing, but the sound does need to carry well. The 8'foundation stops of the Great manual, such as the Diapason or Principal 8 are normally the first to be included in any registration, but they are at the same pitch as the piano and the voices, so the organ sound will be muddy and lost if you use nothing but 8' stops for anything but the softest hymns. You should experiment with adding stops at 4' and 2' to complement the 8' sound, along with the mixture stop from time to time, especially on the final stanza of a majestic hymn. Reed stops, such as the trompete, may be brought in to give the organ tone a fiery sound when called for, but you don't want to use that type of tone all the time for hymns.

    So, start with the Great manual and draw the Principal or Diapason 8, add the Octave 4 and possibly the Super Octave (or Fifteenth) 2. If you need more volume and body, you can also include whatever flute stops the Great has at 8' and 4' (possibly called Gedeckt, Bourdon, Hohlflote, Rohrflote, or Spitzflote on an Allen).

    In the pedal division, use one or two of the 16' stops, depending on how much bass you want to hear. Add the Octave 8 and the flute stop at 8' whatever it may be called on that organ. You can also use the Great to Pedal coupler to give the pedals more presence.

    With this simple registration drawn, play both hands together on the Great manual, playing the notes exactly as written in the hymnal. If possible, play the bass notes exactly as written on the pedals using both feet to smoothly move from one note to another. It isn't necessary to play the bass notes with your left hand, but if you're accustomed to doing that on the piano it doesn't hurt to play them.

    There are a number of websites on which you can get basic information about technique. Check out these and others:

    http://www.rodgersinstruments.com/hymnPlaying
    http://www.hectorparr.freeuk.com/hcp/hymns.htm
    http://www.newliturgicalmovement.org...n-playing.html
    http://www.highnotemusic.com/learn-t...-church-organ/
    http://www.ldsorganists.info/110702_...carol_dean.htm

    Playing the organ is different from playing the piano, to be sure, but do not fall for the old admonition to "never lift your fingers off the keys" or "play like the keys are covered with molasses!" Organ playing should indeed be rhythmic and often breaks between notes are essential. When playing a hymn in which the melody note is repeated, you normally need to lift your finger completely off that note for a fraction of a beat to separate the two occurrences. Otherwise it sounds like mud!

    There are bound to be websites and youtube videos where you can hear good organ playing and good hymn technique. Perhaps some others will post their favorite examples. But nothing can be as helpful as simply trying different things in your own church until you discover what works. And never stop experimenting, never settle for the same old registration week and week, song after son. Variety is the spice of life.

    The more you practice and play the more confident you'll become. Just be a good listener, let your heart and your ears guide you, and you will make a wonderful contribution to your church's worship.
    John
    ----------
    Church: Galanti Praeludium II
    Home: Yamaha HX-1 with Content 220 expander for pipe organ sounds
    Shop: More organs than I can count.... some working, many not!
    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

  3. #3
    Thank you so much for you reply! I really appreciate the encouragement, sometimes I feel like I've bitten off more than I can chew.

  4. #4
    Senior Member myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by churchmusic View Post
    Thank you so much for you reply! I really appreciate the encouragement, sometimes I feel like I've bitten off more than I can chew.
    What John described is how I started in high school. You never know where it will take you!

    In addition to what John said, I'd mention that the Soprano (tune) is generally kept legato, and only broken at the end of phrases (where people would take breath). The inner voices (Alto & Tenor), as well as the pedals (Bass), can be broken or legato--depending on the desired effect of the piece. That will also depend on the acoustics and size of your church. Personally, I tend to break the Bass and inner voices to help move the piece along, otherwise, the congregation may not clearly hear the momentum and fall behind--especially if you don't have a pianist.

    Concerning registration, less is more, but the high frequencies are also needed for clarity. Mixtures can be useful here, if they are not over-used.

    Michael

    P.S. Great advice, John.
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 3 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DKC / ADC-6000 (Symphony)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  5. #5
    Moderator jbird604's Avatar
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    Thanks, Michael! But you are the real authority here, my friend!

    Here's a link to the traditional worship service videos of First Baptist Church, Huntsville, Alabama. I know this is a huge church with a grand pipe organ, but these folks really know how to do hymns right and it's always informative to hear great music being done well. http://fbchsv.org/sanctuaryworship

    Go near the bottom of the page and click on the video to start playing. It takes a long time to download it all, but it is fresh every week and always worth hearing.

    Few of us ever get to play an organ like that in a sanctuary like that with a choir like that! But we can always do our best wherever we are.
    John
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    Church: Galanti Praeludium II
    Home: Yamaha HX-1 with Content 220 expander for pipe organ sounds
    Shop: More organs than I can count.... some working, many not!
    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

  6. #6
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    There are a lot of ways to combine stops to get good results, and most will involve trial and error on your particular instrument in your worship space. There are some general rules of thumb to follow. If you can find the owners manual of your Allen organ I believe it lists some stop combinations that work well together for certain hymns. For Hymns like say "A Mighty Fortress" starting with an 8' principal and building on that by adding 4', 2', or possibly a mixture will give you a good start. For quieter Hymns of a more contemplative nature such as "Were You There" a flute Chorus works well Start with an 8' Flute, and add from there. I find that an 8' principal with a 4' flute works well for a moderate volume setting. Something to keep in mind also the Allen organ has a bass coupler that if you aren't yet ready to tackle the pedals will take the lowest note you play on the manual and duplicate it using the stops selected for the pedals. This will give your manual only playing a fuller sound and duplicate the sound made by playing the pedals.

  7. #7
    Everyone here has given great advice. here's my 2cents... Yes, start with the principals, 4' flutes, gedects, (spelled that wrong) and put on the mixtures for extra power in powerful hymns only. Match the mood of the hymn with appropriate registrations. As far as finding the right volume, here's a simple technique....ask some of the members of the congregation if you were too loud or too soft!! As you play, listen to the volume of the congregation, make a mental note as to organ volume versus congregation volume. once you find the "sweet spot" between the volumes of the two, and verify by asking people who have a music background.... You will have a feel for how far to step on the gas! If your organ has a transposer, play the first 2 or 3 stanzas a half step lower, then on the last note, reach over and raise the transposer, do a little modulation and go into the last verse. Once in a while, on quieter hymns I like to play the melody only for one verse. Variety is better than monotony (proably mis-spelled that one too). There's nothing like the energy you feel while playing hymns like "A Mighty Fortress" or "Jesus Christ is Ris'n Today" on Easter...or have tears running down your cheeks while playing "Silent Night" at a candlelight service. Moments like those make all the thousands of hours practicing worth it IMHO.
    Big old Hammond RT3
    Allen ADC 530
    Nothing smells as sweet as hot Hammond oil!

  8. #8
    Senior Member myorgan's Avatar
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    I tried something this morning, and I was surprised it worked as well as it did. Our church has a Welcome time just before the last verse of the second hymn, where everyone gets up, and wanders around the church "greeting" everyone else (small church). While they're wandering, I play on a softer setting so they can hear each other think.

    For church I use my 505-B. This morning, I started with (Allen) Alterables 3 & 4 with the Flute Celeste card programmed, and the Celeste Tuning on. For the next verse, I added the Sw. Salicional 8', and then for the next verse, switched with the Gemshorn 8' (both using Celeste Tuning) just to see how I liked it. I was amazed how much power the organ had with just 8' stops on when I combined all 3. So, for the verse where they all sang, I just added the 4' Prinzipal and Flute 4', leaving the Celeste Tuning on. It was actually powerful enough to carry the congregation. Something about the Celeste Tuning lent more power to the stops. Of course, I never use Celeste Tuning with Mixtures on, but it was nice for a change.

    I never asked how it affected the congregation, but everyone appeared to get back on track OK. In the past, I have shied away from using Celestes for congregational singing because it is a bit more difficult to tune to. I might try it again sometime, though, if I have a hokey hymn like they tend to like. I might actually throw on the Tremulants too!

    Michael

    P.S. I asked my wife (symphony violinist) what she thought, and she didn't notice any real difference. Then she remembered--she was in the bathroom! I guess that's how she responds to my playing lately. Pavlovian response, I guess.

  9. #9
    Moderator jbird604's Avatar
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    LOL! Going to the bathroom might well be the typical response to us old guys' organ playing these days!

    Interesting use of the celeste tuning. I think most people are not thrown off by it, probably makes the organ sound more like what they associate with pipes. After all, pipes are usually quite out of tune with each other unless they have just been tuned. Most people may not even notice the tremulant (or they may actually like it). I still wouldn't use it because it certainly takes away from the organ's ability to give a clear pitch to the singers.

    Have a good week, my friend!
    John
    ----------
    Church: Galanti Praeludium II
    Home: Yamaha HX-1 with Content 220 expander for pipe organ sounds
    Shop: More organs than I can count.... some working, many not!
    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

  10. #10
    Member toodles's Avatar
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    This is a great thread!

    My 2 cents: add a 4' principal (usually called Choralbass) to the pedal to make that line clearly audible; or couple down a 4' flute from the swell, but not a gedackt, preferably an open or partially open flute (Koppelflote, Spitzflote, Nachthorn, Rohrflote). Stopped flutes such as the gedackt tend to thicken the sound, whereas open flutes and partially open flutes tend to bind sounds together.

    Much of this depends on how the organ is voiced, however.

    Toodles.

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