What electronic organ would love to see made virtual & why?

[paulj0557]

I did write a very in depth post about this topic. It is probably buried somewhere already because of it's ambiguity ( didn't know there was a topic for polling).

So, I'd love to see any of my organs I currently own, but especially the Orgatron. After hearing Organgrinder010's 4602 and comparing it to the series 31 Wurlitzer Orgatron I have, it would seem they did make many improvements as far as variety on the electrostatic Wurlitzers. However I'd like to see Hauptwerk or someone using it's code make extensive quality samples or modelling or whatever it is that's done to create these things. It would be nice to have ALL of the models done in one set- Keyed Reed, Free Reed, Series 20, Series 30 etc. These are the successor to the Wurlitzer pipe organs. Of course there is no comparison as far as approach, but certainly where tonal quality and integrity of craftsmanship in the build is concerned, they are definitely of the same high Wurlitzer standard. Wurlitzer was always at the mercy of circumstance. They had to make war weapons instead of pipe organs, and the demand for theater pipe organs had also come to a dead halt. It was the Orgatron, as bought and refined from Everett that brought them back to organ production after WWII.

The Wurlitzer Electrostatic Organ seems to be the next logical organ to be offered by the digital 'big boys'...for free. Did i say that? Make it right and you will have no trouble at all selling this virtual organ I assure you.

Now as goofy as it sounds, my next choice would be the Hammond Elegante (1980). It would have all of the bells and whistles, and it would be a great introduction to the world of electronic organs. The Elegante surprised and impressed even the die hards of the tone wheel. In fact I assumed it was a tone wheel organ and that it was a reprise of the tone wheel that had been phased out by Hammond in 1975. Nope! It's LSI ( Large Scale Integrated Circuits).

Do these two organs and you'll make make a bunch of fans AND maybe even make some money!

Of course it doesn't have to be any well known company to present these organs to the world. It's a free market. Do your thing people.

[kkeys]

Laurens Hammond 346/350

A step above an Elegante with improved and added solo and tab voices, Choir, 8' Vox, Harmonica,
Electric Guitar/Piano and sampled rhythm unit. I would add the missing harmonic percussion footages as the Elegante has.

Impossible to sample as organ never reached production.

[paulj0557]

I am sad that the home organ market declined, but at the same time I am glad that there was a clear line of, " Now this is what an organ is", and " And this is what a keyboard is".
Right?
Okay, some people will never get it, but let's just say the modern Lowrey, and Yamaha Electone are not organs! Sure it has organ sounds, but it has trumpet sounds too, but it's not a trumpet! So at least the organ died with dignity. I'm not so sure I'd like the sampled drums and electric guitar and sampled piano on an organ. Strings were a work in progress during the declining years of the home organ market and they held the function of accompaniment because at the time the organ with it's ORGAN SOUND was an organ....

It seems that many manufactures had their next big step in organ making all lined up right before the organ bust of the 80's. Thomas had some amazing organ, you say Hammond had one, Gulbransen had the Palace as a spinet, yet the less complex Rialto II as the premier console. The Rialto III never happened, but would have likely been the up-sized successor to the Palace.

The fact is that these are all viable organs from a time in history that for some reason people were in a hurry to escape and never look back at- the 1970's. Well, low and behold there are a whole bunch of us who know our past, who embrace our past, and who would take odds on the fact that what was made before 1980 was very real sounding and needs to be virtualized. If for one reason only- to see how close it can get to the real thing...the real thing being a transistor, of course. The tone wheel has been done, the pipe has been done, the combo organ has been done. So come on, if people could jump on the home organ bandwagon 30-40 years ago they just might do it again once it's properly virtualized. Especially at these low low digital prices.

[andyg]

I think you've still got to class the big Lowreys and the Roland Ateliers as organs. Complete sets of theatre tibias, plus drawbars, loads of pure organ sounds, both pipe and electronic. And that's before you go orchestral! The Gully Palace was their best attempt at the blend of theatre, drawbars and orchestral IMHO - same thing that L and R now do. I wish there had been that Rialto III console version.

As for what vintage ones to virtualize, let's go for Lowrey Heritage DSO, Hammond X66, Baldwin PR200 and Thomas Celebrity/Palace for starters. And not forgetting the Rialto K. I'm sure there are some who'd love a virtual Yamaha EX42 too!

[afuller5]

Paul and Andy,

I have to agree with both of you on this.

I own a Roland AT-90 (first-generation of the Roland Atelier). I will agree with Andy that it is an organ since it has classical organ diapasons, theatre tibias, "Lowery-ish" flutes, and "Hammond-ish" "flutes" (no physical or virtual drawbars on my model.) In addition it has other classical stops (all at 8'): Viol Celeste, Flute Celeste, Hautbois, Trompet, Viole, and Gemshorn. It also has other theatre stops (all at 8'): String, Trumpet, Tuba, Oboe, Vox Humana, English Horn, Krumet, and Sax.

I love the classical sounds, especially since I'm a church organist. I also like the Lowery-ish flutes. I've never been into the Hammond sound. I did not "grow up" with theatre organ music. However, I like the theatre tibias but am not wild about the "harshness" of the other theatre stops. One thing I think is that Roland did not quite get the "balance" correct with the theatre tibias since they seem a little soft when compared to the other theatre voices.

I said all of the above to agree with Andy that it is an organ.

Now, where I agree with Paul is as follows. I grew up playing electronic organs. At home I had Yamahas (115 and 415, aka D85). My organ teacher had a Thomas Celebrity and, at different times, various Lowery spinets. For a time, I played a Wurlitzer 4502 at church. Thus, I would like to get a similar sound of the electronic organs from the Roland. However, there are no "electronic" organ string, reed, or diapason stops available. (I use the string voices [think sampled string ensemble from a keyboard] to simulate the sound of flutes and strings, but the sound is not exactly right.) Hence, I see Pual's point about wanting the sound of the older transistor electronics.

In fact, when I play my Roland, I primarily use the flutes, classical sounds, and occasionally the theatre sounds. I will used some of the other voices; e.g., accordion for a polka. However, my Yamaha keyboard actually has much more realistic orchestral voices/ensembles and styles than my Atelier. So, when I am in the mood to use styles and orchestral voices, I usually play the keyboard.

I hope my long post did not bore you.

Later,
Allen

[paulj0557]

Allen, Thank you for your candor. This is what I like to hear as it will hopefully get people thinking and rethinking the current state of the organ. The beauty of digital is that it need not be completely redone in a physical environment. Maybe, just maybe some day soon I will click on a free download of someones intricately sampled Elegante, Heritage DSO, X66, Baldwin PR200 ( what is that Andy??), Thomas Celebrity/Palace,Gulbransen Rialto K, Yamaha EX42, the electrostatic Wurlitzers etc.

This brings up an interesting concept that I'm sure has been done, but I haven't personally seen. What if you could take a box and put 4 speakers in it- one on each side. Then inside the box you had a sophisticated amplifier that used a digital processor for the input to the amplifier that created every virtual Leslie of the past. The Thomas Organ co. had a great electronic stereo 'tremulent' that used negative feedback with an array of 4 light bulbs and 4 photo cells to create the rapid sound movement between a pair of 12" speakers on the Californian organs beginning with the 250. The Californian Quadraphonic used 4 speakers, but I don't know exactly how these circuits were set up. I have a Californian 263 that is stereo like I described above. In this stereo version there are two identical circuit boards with the photo cells and lights, one for each channel - 1 for Left and 1 for Right. These boards feed to the main voltage control board that controls rate, depth,negative feedback, and a fourth control I forget. In the Quadraphonic Thomas Californians maybe there are 4 of these 'light boards' and then a slightly different voltage control board? It would be interesting to know how the Quadraphonic Thomas organs sound...does it swirl around and around or go back and forth? Always wondered.

[kkeys]

Re usage of digital/sampled voicing:
Although doubtful I would use an electric guitar very often, that voice would surely be more realistic than the guitar on the Hammond TW series; H, E, T, XTP and X-77.

In terms of voicing on organs vs. keyboards. A piano may not be considered a traditional organ voice but the Blackpool WuliTzer in the tower ballroom has a real one in the installation. A Vox Humana probably would be appropriate for a theater organ but I would prefer a choir. The latter choice occurred after hearing Brian Sharp on the Kawai T-30.

My preference is an instrument which adds orchestral/instrumental to organ voicing, an all-in-one concept.

Re: Baldwin PR-200, an open base pedestal console with tone cabinets.

[afuller5]

Hi all,

I just wanted to comment to make sure that my post above is not misinterpreted.

Kkeys, the Roland Ateliers do what you describe in your post. They have excellent organ voicing for classical, theatre, and Hammond. They also add the instrumental/orchestral voices that are very realistic. (They do have a choir--several, in fact, on the new models as well as a "scat" voice.) I love the classical voices and the flute voices (think Lowrey, etc). I am not much into theatre or Hammond.

My post above was in reference to wishing that there were string and reed stops like those found on older analog home organs like Thomas, Lowrey, Yamaha, Conn, etc. I miss those types of voices since those are what I "grew up" with.

That being said, I still love the great piano, strings, accordion, oboe, etc that are found on the Roland. In fact, when I am playing hymn arrangements, I often use the oboe.

Also, I used to own a Yamaha 415 (aka D 85). It had pretty good instrumental voices for the era (1980). It also had a soprano and tenor "vocal ensemble" that was similar to a choir. The solo manual especially had some good solo voices like trumpet, oboe, etc.

I hope this clarifies my post above.

Until later,
Allen

[kkeys]

Afuller sorry for the confusion, I was offering some discussion on this post.

Yes I’m aware of Roland Ateliers through video and audio clips. After first reading about them on here I went out to a dealer who showed them on their website to find there were none on the floor.

I am sad that the home organ market declined, but at the same time I am glad that there was a clear line of, " Now this is what an organ is", and " And this is what a keyboard is".
Right?
Okay, some people will never get it, but let's just say the modern Lowrey, and Yamaha Electone are not organs! Sure it has organ sounds, but it has trumpet sounds too, but it's not a trumpet! So at least the organ died with dignity. I'm not so sure I'd like the sampled drums and electric guitar and sampled piano on an organ. Strings were a work in progress during the declining years of the home organ market and they held the function of accompaniment because at the time the organ with it's ORGAN SOUND was an organ....

[afuller5]

Kkeys,

I knew that you were just adding to the discussion. I hope that you were not offended by my post. That was certainly not my intent. If you were offended, I deeply and sincerely apologize.

Thanks for your contributions to the forum!

Later,
Allen