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Thread: M3 Octave Lowering

  1. #1


    M3 Octave Lowering

    Lowering the bottom of the lower manual on an M3. Just the lowest octave? HOw do I do this? Do I have to use an "octivider"?? Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

  2. #2
    Moderator Brendon Wright's Avatar
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    Hi Paul!
    Simon Burtsal and Geoff Williamson are working on an octave divider kit, dunno when it'll be ready. A digital divider can drop polyphonic stuff down, but an analogue circuit can only do one note at a time, meaning the board has to have a circuit for every note in the octave.... like the pedal divider from a T series!!!!
    Dzlvs8 used a T series board on his M3, worked well. I used one of Geoff Williamson's OLD boards, which cost a ton on parts.
    There's also the Kon Zissis mod where he takes your M3's pedal tonewheels, filters 'em to clean sines and whacks 'em onto the lower manual. Note that the lowest manual octave goes from F while the pedals are from C... so there's a bit of juggling up and down to get them to fit. Apparently it sounds okay.

    Do you want the recipe for that one?
    -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
    -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
    -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
    -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
    -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

  3. #3


    Nice! I would definitely love to see that one! Filters for the pedal tones huh, sounds easy(sarcasm). Aren't there a few missing notes between the pedal range and that of the lowest F on the keys? What's the deal with the M3's pedals anyway? You know, with that saggy slow attack (even when set to normal) and that soulless almost synth-like tone. It would be ideal to get them to sound like they do on the consoles. I even prefer the pedals on my L100 to the pedals on the consoles.

  4. #4
    Moderator Brendon Wright's Avatar
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    Man, the modified, boosted pedals on my T500 are sumpin' to behold!
    As for Kon's "simple" procedure, I admit I've never read it because I don't have pedal tonewheels on my T! However, I'll post it up for you to decide...
    I believe Kon rearranged the lowest notes to fit in that short gap from the E down to the C, so a scale with only the 16' would sound odd, but a groovy riff would sound great... and besides, the 5 1/3 and the 8' must cover a fair bit of the oddity in that space (a space oddity?)

    Here goes...

    "I finally got around to doing the octave down modification to the lower manual of my 1963 L-102.
    Because I had to add extension wires to all the existing TG note wires under the lower manaual in order to allow the wires to be soldered on to the TG note terminal solder tags one octave up, and also because I added the bass pedal TG notes 1 to 12 on to the lowest octave of the 16 ft drawbar, and because I wired up the 220 uf grounding capacitors on the TG note terminal strips of the bass pedal TG notes 1 to 13 to make them sound more like sine waves , this whole modification took me two days to complete and it was very tiresome sitting down on a tiny stool for so many hours croutching down and working on the wires under the lower manual.

    Because the lowest octave of the keyboard notes are arranged in the order starting on F and then going up to E, I wired up the pedal bass TG notes arranged in the particular order of:

    6 F
    7 F#
    8 G
    9 G#
    10 A
    11 A#
    12 B
    1 C
    2 C#
    3D
    4 D#
    5 E

    The first F key note of the second octave receives the TG note 18 so therefore 6 there is an audible abrupt jump up from the TG note 5 on the E key of the lowest keyboard octave and the TG note 18 on the fiorst F key of the second octave , and there is also an audible abrupt jump down from the TG note 12 on the B key and the TG note 1 on the C key of the lowest octave of the keyboard , but because these are bass notes on the jump up and the jump down , the audible effect is not too bothersome so therefore it does sound acceptable and OK to my ears. Some more finicky people might possibly not like the audible jump up and the jump down but I expect that many others might enjoy the "bass all the way down " and the deep bass growl more than they dislike the audible jump up and jump down , and this jump up and jump down is mainly noticeable when using the 16 ft drawbar on it's own similar to the noticeable jump between the folded back TG notes 13 to 24 on a console organ, but when other drawbars are pulled out the jump up and jump down is not so noticeable or obtrusive.

    Because of this , I consider the particular "bass all the way down " modification on my L-102 organ to be a success and I recommend it to others.

    The stock complex waveform pedal bass TG notes TG notes 1 to 13 have a buzzy "farty" sound but adding the 220 uf grounding capacitors between the TG notes 1 to 13 and the ground has removed much of the fartiness thus resulting in a more acceptable more sine wave like sound on the bottom octave of the manual.

    In order to set the TG notes 1 to 12 at the proper levels so that they are in a proper balance with the TG note 18 onwards , I wired a 33 ohms resistor followed by a 200 ohms trimpot between each of the TG notes 1 to 12 and the corresponding TG note solder tags on the lowest octave of the TG note terminal terminal strip under the lower manual.

    The 200 ohms trimpots allow a wide range of volume controlfor each of the bass TG notes 1 to 12, and the 33 ohms series resistors stop the TG notes 1 to 12 from being excessively loud.

    I have thus far only set the volume levels of the TG notes 1 to 12 to be matched to the TG note 18 by ear so that they all acoustically sound at approximately the same volume levels, but the bass TG notes (especially the lowest bass TG notes) on the lowest octave of the lower manual distort easily if I play the organ loudly , and if I turn up the recently installed gain boost control on the power amplifier then the bass TG notes 1 to 12 on the lower manual distort even when the expression pedal is set to the lowest volume level setting so therefore I will later on use my voltage meter to set the volume levels of the TG notes to produce the same volume level as the TG note 18.

    All the best.
    Kon. "
    -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
    -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
    -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
    -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
    -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

  5. #5


    Wish I could see those pedals on your T500. Ahhh I see! As always, you've been a big help to me! Thanks

  6. #6
    Moderator Brendon Wright's Avatar
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    I'll show those pedals shortly. I've also got requests to film the other knibs n' knobs on my T, so I'll do that one day too.

    lemme see...
    pedalia...



    and



    unt
    -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
    -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
    -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
    -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
    -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

  7. #7
    Moderator Brendon Wright's Avatar
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    Here's wut they wuz:


    with the oak imposed atop:



    Did you know you get tired of modding after a cupla years?
    Plenty more ideas, just sick of working on it!
    -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
    -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
    -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
    -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
    -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

  8. #8


    OH I get sick of working on this stuff after two or three weeks! That's why I keep finding different projects to work on and when I get sick of that, I go back to the other. It always seems like whenever I finish up a big project a new candidate pops up on Craigslist for me to take on. Will my house ever be clean and cleared out again?? I really need a garage.

  9. #9
    Moderator Brendon Wright's Avatar
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    I heard from Simon B today, he says the bass kits're nearing completion... probably a number of weeks only. The Boards are done, but there's the instructions etc to sort out.

    I dunno what they'll cost, but even considering many spinets cost their current owners a grand $0 the kit will cost more than the spinet did. It's definitely worth the dough though!
    Left hand bass
    Left Hand bass
    Left Hand all the way....
    -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
    -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
    -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
    -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
    -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

  10. #10
    pp Pianissimo Tee's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    87


    Whoah..great news, the bass kits. Will be exciting to see how they turn out soundwise, how easy they will be to install and how they will be priced! Something to look forward to!

    Kalli
    www.karlolgeirsson.com
    _______________________________________________
    1958 - Hammond M-3
    1974 - Leslie 760
    1981 - Rhodes 54
    1962 - Guild F-20
    1986 - Yamaha KX-5 keytar (Silver)
    1970 - Victoria Accordion

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