Need info for home organ

[RobW]

Hi all,</p>

Our son (16 yo) has been playing the organ for a couple years (piano for 8 years) and we would like to buy a practice organ for home. He is working on church (liturgical) and classical music.</p>

I've read some of the past forum lines about home organs but am still a little uncertain about what to look for.</p>

We'd like to get the basics: two manuals, 32 note AGO pedal board, the usual stops, digital (if possible) -- nothing fancy. Of course, it needs to fit in the house :) His instructor has steered us toward Allen or Rodgers organs. Are the Baldwins to be considered also? We're in NW Michigan and so would like to find something in Michigan, though Chicago or NW Ohio wouldn't be out of range. Price? If I can keep it below $1000, Momma would be very happy. If that isn't reasonable, please let me know.
</p>

I've been looking at EBay and craigslist and some of the other sites I've found here on the forums. There's no rush but would like to get something so we don't have to drive 1/2 hour for practice . . .</p>

Anyway, if you have advice on models, features, prices, etc., I would appreciate your help. I'm not the musician, but I understand electronics. (We can talk virtual organs somewhere else.)</p>

Thanks . . .
</p>

[Menschenstimme]

Hi Rob,</P>


Forgive me if I am brief. May I suggest that your budget be more in the area of $2000 to $3000 and that you look for an Allen ADC model? The ADC series covers a wide spectrum and they were made mostly during the 1980s. The most cost-effective purchase in the long run is the one that will be functional and useful for several years with minimal maintenance. Your son appears to be very dedicated and serious about this and thus deserves all the help he can get. Another advantage of an Allen ADC is that there would at least be some market for it if you ever wanted to sell it. Hope this helps!</P>


Good luck and God bless!</P>

[Philip the organist]

Hi Rob,</p>


Forgive me if I am brief. May I suggest that your budget be more in the area of $2000 to $3000 and that you look for an Allen ADC model? The ADC series covers a wide spectrum and they were made mostly during the 1980s. The most cost-effective purchase in the long run is the one that will be functional and useful for several years with minimal maintenance. Your son appears to be very dedicated and serious about this and thus deserves all the help he can get. Another advantage of an Allen ADC is that there would at least be some market for it if you ever wanted to sell it. Hope this helps!</p>


Good luck and God bless!</p>

</p>

Good evening, Rob and welcome to the Forum. I am a 15-year old organist here in Rochester. I play for services at my church and accompany the Youth Choir and various other small groups. It's good to hear of another young organist-perhaps we'll meet at college or at a competition somewhere. My story on organ buying:
</p>

For 6 years I had a Kimball Stardust K600, theatre-style, 25n pedalboard. It was a good starter instrument, but as my classical pieces got more and more difficult, it became less and less of a suitable organ for me. So when it broke in September, my parents purchased a new (used) one.
We searched the dealerships in the area for anything suitable, but the Rodgers dealer had no used instruments (entry-line Rodgers with 27-note pedalboard is $15,000, new Allens start around $30,000), and the Allen dealers wanted to charge us either $1,640 for a 45-year old analog with a non-AGO pedalboard, or $7,000 for a 10-year old digital. Since we needed something fast (and lower-priced), we took our search online. I will give you some links to ones that I checked out and found to be good:</p>

http://barton.theatreorgans.com/AdSearch_1.ASP?%5BType%5D=Sell ---It is basically a classifieds listing of all manner of pipe and electronic organs. Of course price will depend on the individual who is selling, but usually they run very low.
</p>

churchorgantrader.com ---You need to apply for a free membership to view the ads. They tend to run a little higher than the previous link but still are usually reasonable.</p>

Niceusedpianos.com --dealer in Michigan, sells organs too. Probably most expensive, but they would probably give you a service warranty and extra "goodies" that a private individual can't offer.</p>

http://garyjordan.home.mchsi.com/electronic.htm ---This is the website of Gary Jordan, a fellow Forum member and church sound designer in Springfield, MO. These are organs he has rescued, repaired, or received in trade. He sold us our Allen ADC 420 (2 manuals, AGO pedal, internal speakers, spring reverb). I agree with MenchenStimme as to the high quality of the ADC instruments. They were produced during the eighties. The voices are generated digitally, by two computer chips (which gives a richer, fuller sound than the older Allen MOS series), and the ADCs are very reliable, robust in sound, and solidly built. </p>

I know that buying locally is a good thing, but as I said, there was absolutely nothing available in the area that didn't cost an arm and a leg. Mr. Jordan sold us the ADC 420 for only <u>$500</u>. Had it been here in a dealership, in the good condition it was in, it could easily have fetched at least $2,500. So we had it shipped to NY by Fragile Freight, Inc. for $900. They are professional piano movers, so they charged a little more. So all said, we had the perfect home practice instrument for $1,500 But now Mr. Jordan has a deal with ABF Relo-Cube services to put an organ in a container and ship it nationwide for only $328. All that to say that if you can't find anything in the area, something good will come up online for a good price, with reasonable shipping.
The only organ on Jordan's site right now that would suit your needs well would be the Rodgers 32B. The Allen 631 is older MOS technology so it has more of a sterile, brittle sound, but it is 3 manuals, so that might be a tradeoff to consider. </p>

Beware of the "Princess" pedals. They are also 32-note, but designed to be compact and built smaller than the good AGO pedalboards. Regularly practicing on an instrument with a princess pedalboard could lead to bad habits and be the ruination of good technique.
Also, Ebay and Craigslist can be good, but always look out for scams and people who do not know what they are talking about when it comes to organs.</p>

Best wishes again, hope this helps,</p>

PF</p>

PS-There are many people here on the Forum who helped us with our decision. Try sending jbird604 a private message. He was an Allen salesman for many years (he knows technical specs for just about every instrument from 1970 to 2000) and now is a serviceman.
</p>

[Philip the organist]

Hi Rob,</p>


Forgive me if I am brief. May I suggest that your budget be more in the area of $2000 to $3000 and that you look for an Allen ADC model? The ADC series covers a wide spectrum and they were made mostly during the 1980s. The most cost-effective purchase in the long run is the one that will be functional and useful for several years with minimal maintenance. Your son appears to be very dedicated and serious about this and thus deserves all the help he can get. Another advantage of an Allen ADC is that there would at least be some market for it if you ever wanted to sell it. Hope this helps!</p>


Good luck and God bless!</p>

</p>

Good evening, Rob and welcome to the Forum. I am a 15-year old organist here in Rochester. I play for services at my church and accompany the Youth Choir and various other small groups. It's good to hear of another young organist-perhaps we'll meet at college or at a competition somewhere. My story on organ buying:
</p>

For 6 years I had a Kimball Stardust K600, theatre-style, 25n pedalboard. It was a good starter instrument, but as my classical pieces got more and more difficult, it became less and less of a suitable organ for me. So when it broke in September, my parents purchased a new (used) one.
We searched the dealerships in the area for anything suitable, but the Rodgers dealer had no used instruments (entry-line Rodgers with 27-note pedalboard is $15,000, new Allens start around $30,000), and the Allen dealers wanted to charge us either $1,640 for a 45-year old analog with a non-AGO pedalboard, or $7,000 for a 10-year old digital. Since we needed something fast (and lower-priced), we took our search online. I will give you some links to ones that I checked out and found to be good:</p>

http://barton.theatreorgans.com/AdSearch_1.ASP?%5BType%5D=Sell ---It is basically a classifieds listing of all manner of pipe and electronic organs. Of course price will depend on the individual who is selling, but usually they run very low.
</p>

churchorgantrader.com ---You need to apply for a free membership to view the ads. They tend to run a little higher than the previous link but still are usually reasonable.</p>

Niceusedpianos.com --dealer in Michigan, sells organs too. Probably most expensive, but they would probably give you a service warranty and extra "goodies" that a private individual can't offer.</p>

http://garyjordan.home.mchsi.com/electronic.htm ---This is the website of Gary Jordan, a fellow Forum member and church sound designer in Springfield, MO. These are organs he has rescued, repaired, or received in trade. He sold us our Allen ADC 420 (2 manuals, AGO pedal, internal speakers, spring reverb). I agree with MenchenStimme as to the high quality of the ADC instruments. They were produced during the eighties. The voices are generated digitally, by two computer chips (which gives a richer, fuller sound than the older Allen MOS series), and the ADCs are very reliable, robust in sound, and solidly built. </p>

I know that buying locally is a good thing, but as I said, there was absolutely nothing available in the area that didn't cost an arm and a leg. Mr. Jordan sold us the ADC 420 for only <u>$500</u>. Had it been here in a dealership, in the good condition it was in, it could easily have fetched at least $2,500. So we had it shipped to NY by Fragile Freight, Inc. for $900. They are professional piano movers, so they charged a little more. So all said, we had the perfect home practice instrument for $1,500 But now Mr. Jordan has a deal with ABF Relo-Cube services to put an organ in a container and ship it nationwide for only $328. All that to say that if you can't find anything in the area, something good will come up online for a good price, with reasonable shipping.
The only organ on Jordan's site right now that would suit your needs well would be the Rodgers 32B. The Allen 631 is older MOS technology so it has more of a sterile, brittle sound, but it is 3 manuals, so that might be a tradeoff to consider. </p>

Beware of the "Princess" pedals. They are also 32-note, but designed to be compact and built smaller than the good AGO pedalboards. Regularly practicing on an instrument with a princess pedalboard could lead to bad habits and be the ruination of good technique.
Also, Ebay and Craigslist can be good, but always look out for scams and people who do not know what they are talking about when it comes to organs.</p>

Best wishes again, hope this helps,</p>

PF</p>

PS-There are many people here on the Forum who helped us with our decision. Try sending jbird604 a private message. He was an Allen salesman for many years (he knows technical specs for just about every instrument from 1970 to 2000) and now is a serviceman.
</p>

[Lakeshoreorganist]

There is a Rodgers on ebay right now in Gregory Michigan.... $600.

[circa1949]

Robw - Philips write up is an excellent one. It's good you are being supportive of your son's musical ambitions.
</p>

I'd also refer you to a post I just made a few days ago about the values of used organs:</p>

http://organforum.com/forums/permalink/74667/74818/ShowThread.aspx#74818 (/forums/permalink/74667/74818/ShowThread.aspx#74818)</p>

Looks like there is now a used organ broker, Gary Jordan, who is taking a realistic approach to prices and values. This is a good sign. I think some dealers feel threatened by the used market, so they try to price the organs unrealistically. Quite to the contrary they should realize the used market in the long run keeps the new market viable. You don't see Canon trying to stop the sale of their used cameras: because they know some people can or will only afford used and that those people will eventually buy new one day, and or encourage others to buy new. If your used Allen provides your son years of reasonably priced and maintenance free practice he will probably remember that if he one day becomes a professional organist. (although the general view of "the academy" these days is that, of course, only a pipe organ will do, there have been, are, and will be churches that think a digital sounds good enough, even some with very advanced music programs, and they will need organists)</p>

</p>

</p>

</p>

[RobW]

Thanks for the advice. I kind of expected that I was a bit low. Like most of us, it's always a balancing act with these things. </p>

Are there certain models numbers that go with the ADC's? It's difficult finding some of this info on the web. I'm probably looking in the wrong place. </p>

Thanks again for the help . . .</p>

Rob
</p>

[RobW]

Thanks Philip. I appreciate all the help and info. It sounds like you have studied well and learned much. Well done.</p>

It sounds like we are headed in much the direction that you have gone. I will contact Mr. Jordan and see if he can help us too. </p>

I've contacted the dealers here on the West side of MI. The Rodgers dealer has something coming in soon. We'll see what he has. The Allen dealer's price for a 122 is $3k. They have overhead to cover so I understand the pricing . . .</p>

Thanks again. If you think of anything else, let me know. </p>

Rob
</p>

[RobW]

Thanks, I saw that one too. It looks big and seems older (if I'm beginning to understand the models). Too, the gentleman seems a little put off by buyers in general :)</p>

Thanks too, circa1949. I'll file your good advice away too.</p>

Rob
</p>

[Menschenstimme]

Hi Rob,</P>


All Allen ADC models start off with the letters ADC. We had an ADC-1110 at church for a while. This model would be perfect for your son and should sell for $3000 including delivery. $3000 for a 122 sounds too high. The 122 is a pre-ADC model. It would be an okay practice organ for about $1000, plus delivery. But the ADC models are better enough that they are worth pursuing. And beware of the Princess pedalboard. Your son needs a genuine AGO pedalboard, which most Allens have.</P>


Take care and good luck!</P>

[RobW]

Thanks. I'll start looking . . .</p>

Here is an ADC-530 in Va. http://lynchburg.craigslist.org/msg/1042994364.html </p>

Do the features of the organ improve with higher model numbers? There didn't appear to be many stop options on the above organ. I don't know if it is that important for a practice organ . . .</p>

Thanks everyone. I know you've answered these questions many times before.</p>

Rob
</p>

</p>

</p>

[Menschenstimme]

Hi Rob,</P>


Yes, the higher numbers mean more upscale models. Actually, one rule of thumb is that if four digits follow the ADC rather than three digits; i.e., ADC-1110 rather than ADC-530, then the 1110 is "better." This particular organ might be perfect for your son - but please let him have a say in the matter. This is an external speaker model, which will always sound better than an internal speaker model.</P>


An option that your son would likely prefer is a moving combination action rather than a "blind" combination action. But for a practice organ, this is somewhat irrelevant.</P>


If this organ is not too far from you, then you might give it some very serious thought.</P>


By the way, it would be prudent to plan on having an authorized Allen technican give the organ a service call after you have it. This is not a waste of money and could prove helpful and worth the few hundred dollar that it would cost.</P>


I wish you and your son (and wife) all the best!</P>

[RobW]

Thanks. That's what I was thinking . . .</p>

I will be speaking to his instructor more on what is handy to have on a practice organ. There is quite a bit to consider.</p>

The organ in Va. in quite a ways away from here (NW Michigan). I'm not ready to jump yet . . .</p>

I'll keep the list posted on our progress. If you have any more input - - fire away!</p>

Rob
</p>

[Lakeshoreorganist]

here is one in Grand Rapids</P>


http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/msg/1054819979.html</P>

[Brandon Tuomikoski]

I am 15. I am looking to sell my Rodgers 22b which can be seen in my photo section... $500. 2x 61- 32 AGO organ.

[RobW]

Thanks Lakeshore and Brandon.</p>

I'll put them in the hopper of "things to consider." </p>

Rob
</p>

[RobW]

The local Allen dealer is receiving an ADC-420 as a trade soon. It has been in a funeral home. He suspects that it has factory presets and doesn't have programmable presets (is this the moving combination some of you have spoken of?). We don't have many details right now.
</p>

My son's organ instructor is talking to him about it. Right now, the price he has put "out there" is $2500 plus $500 for moving it. He says the condition is "very good." My son's instructor has already asked him if we could get it for $2500 total. </p>

My questions for you: Is this a reasonable price for a 20-25 year old instrument? Are there are extras I should ask for if I would want to buy it from him (like add programmable presets)? Should dealer installation/voicing, etc. come with this price?</p>

Thanks for all your help and advice.
</p>

[Menschenstimme]

The 'factory presets' rather than 'programmable presets' is a major disadvantage. There are three kinds of combination actions. The 'factory preset' kind is relatively rare and only on small basic instruments. More common are programmable presets that do not actually move the stops. Sometimes they have lights to indicate which stops are on. The preferred combination action that most real pipe organs and upscale digital organs have is the programmable capture memory combination action where the stops actually move. If your son is anything like I was at his age, he probably has a strong preference for the geniune 'pipe organ' programmable capture combination action with actual moving stops. This is even more important if you anticipate keeping this organ for several years rather than upgrading to a much more expensive one. Moreover, the professional combination action would help you sell the organ if you ever wish to do so.</P>


$3000 delivered and installed, including any minor servicing that may be required, would not be an outrageously high price - but it is definitely high for this particular organ. If it were the ADC-1110 that we had at church for a while, which had the moving combination action, then it would not be quite so high.</P>


My suggestion is to wait for a more upscale ADC model (one with four-digits in the model number, rather than three). Even if the organ costs $2000 to buy, $1000 to move (from a distance) and another $500 for a 'check up' upon delivery, for this $3500 you would be getting more organ and a better organ for your money. The additional $500 - $1000 would be money well spent, in my humble opinion.</P>


Also, your son really should have a say regarding what is important to him. You want him to like the organ and really want to use it. See if you can find out who your local Allen technician is and see if he is friendly and would not mind spending some telephone time discussing these issues with you. He may even know of someone who is thinking of selling their organ.</P>


Hope this helps and good luck!</P>

[RobW]

Thanks for the good advice. I appreciate it. I have spoken to my son's instructor about it.</p>

I am involving our son in the discussion. He regularly plays/practices on our Allen at church. That organ has the programmable capture action.
</p>

Like I tell everyone, I have more time than money when it comes to this decision. We're going to take our time with it and get the right instrument . . .</p>

Thanks again . . . Peace be with you.
</p>

[OrgansR4Me]

I'm impressed with any funeral home that is upgrading an organ in this day and age. Most funeral homes are getting the organs out in favor of some very vague -- and definitely unreligious -- keyboard music. The $2500 asking price seems to be a favorite price point for dealers. I was told that was the value of the Allen I picked up last winter. (I got a good deal at $700 + del and tax for a total of $900 because the combination action needed repair and there was a cipher -- I've discussed those situations in other posts so I won't go there.)</P>


I wouldn't rule out the organ completely. I'd let the dealer show it for a couple of months and then return with an offer closer to $1200! No one is grabbing up 25 - 30 year organs these days. You'll most likely be able to acquire this nice instrument at a fairer price if you don't appear too eager. Delivery service pricecould be better unless it includes a tech visit or you are a long way from the store. Most movers in my area quote $250 - 300 and with less work for movers these days most of them are coming down if you ask!</P>

[RobW]

I've noticed that price point with the dealers. Well, it's a starting place for discussion . . .</p>

This organ has possibilities but it sounds like I would want a little more feature-wise. We'll see how it unfolds . . .</p>

Thanks for the help.
</p>

[Philip the organist]

Rob,
</p>

Allen Co. does still have the capture board (what you need to make presets set-able) for the ADC 420 series still available. It is I believe less than $300. Also the organ is prepared with the wiring and switching for adding external speakers should you wish to do so. The dealer would sell you the board, and a tech would probably be the one to install speakers. Also, I think it is possible to add MIDI too. (these thoughts have been going through my mind as my birthday approaches [:D] )</p>

Also, make sure that it is a stock 420 and not a 420C. The <u>C</u> stands for Chimes--the Great Krummhorn 8' is replaced with chimes. Chimes are OK, but that means the organ only has 2 reeds-16' Bassoon and 8' Trumpet through the whole organ, borrowed by all three divisions (sw. Gt. Ped.)
</p>

[Menschenstimme]

Excellent information and good points, Philip. Just to clarify for Rob: A memory board that would convert the presets to a capture system would still not make the stops actually move. That would require an expensive replacement of the stops with SAMs, plus a power supply to operate the system, etc. We don't want to unintentionally cause Rob nor his son any disappointments.</P>


Onward . . .</P>

[Philip the organist]

Menchie,</p>

My bad. I should have mentioned that. Did the ADC 1110 come standard with moving drawknob action?
</p>

[Menschenstimme]

The ADC-1110 had moving stop-keys and lots of pistons. It was a very nice basic, internal-speaker two-manual organ with AGO pedalboard. We ran it through the church's sound system which worked out well even though this is not correct for an organ. It was a temporary instrument while the III/72 was being overhauled and reinstalled. It would probably be a very good fit for Rob and his son if the could find one.</P>

[RobW]

Thanks. This is really helping.</p>

</p>

Here is a link to an ADC-1140 (in DE) http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/msg/1048675582.html</p>

</p>

</p>

[Menschenstimme]

This might be an excellent opportunity, Rob. Why not contact your local Allen technician and discuss it with him? Your church probably has his business card on file. Good luck!

[RobW]

OK. I'm a bit slow and dense on this subject ;)</p>

A. What do I talk to the tech about? I really don't know what to ask.</p>

B. What kind of questions should I ask the seller. He had good info at the link. It sounds like it is good shape.</p>

C. Shipping. Uship? Other suggestions? I can always ask the seller, I know. It sounds like he knows organs a bit since he is trading up . . .
</p>

[Menschenstimme]

Just ask basic questions as though you were buying a used car. How much to replace the speakers? Would we be better off just purchasing some newer second-hand Allen speakers (which the technician may haveon hand)? And yes, ask both the seller and the technician. Don't be shy, it is your money and your son's future. Ask about the cost of an installation 'check-up' by the technician once it arrives. Ask the seller if everything else works. It sounds like he took good care of it.</P>


Hope this helps!</P>

[RobW]

I think I can handle that. I thought there might be "secret organ info"-type questions to ask. ;)</p>

I'll be at the church tomorrow. I'll look his number up.</p>

Thanks a bunch. . .
</p>

</p>

</p>

[circa1949]

Rob...that was my ADC-1140 you posted a link to. I am truly
waffling about selling the organ...sorry. I didn't mean to "lead
anyone on" here, that's why I casually mentioned in a couple posts a while back that I _might_ be interested in selling it - and went into the background on it. After being burned by someone who had said they would buy the organ - a local buyer btw - I was going to assess the general amount of interest the ad would generate. Other than your reply the only one I got was from an obvious scammer of the type that frequents craigslist.
</p>

I was explaining to a friend the situation with used classical electronic organs: there are fewer and fewer of them around, and yet they are getting lower and lower in value. (he replied that this reflected the general scenario with US dollars right now LOL...scary but true) My rationale was that I would eventually break down and build a Hauptwerk organ, even if it meant I had to pay through the nose for a Mac, and even if it meant I'd one day have to rewire a console. And since I'd have to rewire the MADC console to have true stop and piston control, if I was going to that trouble I'd eventually buy a used 3 manual ADC or MOS console. (part of the romance of an organ to me is actually having it look like an organ, the neo-style hauptwerk consoles don't excite me too much, although don't get me wrong I respect the musicianship of people who play them beautifully) Therefore: with the value of used organs declining, I figured I should get some cash for mine now, even though I didn't need the money and would miss that little organ, because I'm very attached to it. Now I've kind of flip-flopped on this approach. I'd rather keep the Allen, the fear is separation has started me playing/practicing it more LOL. Maybe when I've completed my new organ I will sell the old one finally. But that will be a ways in the future.
</p>

Here's why I can not feel bad if I don't decide to sell the organ to you. If you are even considering spending that much on the 420, and I agree it's definitely a high but not outrageous amt., you obviously have the means now to make the purchase. Well here's a story: I have also been browsing pianos on ebay recently. There are scads of people listing old Steinways for 15K+. The only Steinway with a bid on it is a $2000 instrument. For various reasons, the piano market is highly illiquid. Well sooner or later some of these people sitting on those pianos will have to lower their prices, or start dumping them in the Hudson. The market will become more liquid. Although the used organ market is much smaller, the same thing will happen. Just in the time since you orginally posted about a MOS 122 for $4500, (was that you or someone else?) which is highway robbery, you found a better organ for less. Keep waiting. It will keep happening. OrgansR4Me is also correct - come back to the dealer in a couple months, he might accept $1500.</p>

</p>

</p>

</p>

[circa1949]

One more reply to this. Philips is an organist, I am not. However I was an organ student as a young teen, was paid by various churches as a substitute organist in my town for a while. Then I went back to piano. At the time I had an MDC-20. (avoid anything MDC from Allen, which is totally different from the desirable 1990s MDS organs!) Having fixed pistons didn't strike me as a serious impediment to my practice, or my ability to use moving stops at the various churches when I subbed. Not having an AGO pedalboard was DEFINITELY a problem. I'm just pointing out where your priorities should be...it's not too hard to learn how to push the buttons under the keys. (although it does take some practice to get the timing right, if your son wants to practice that he can still use the fixed pistons). It is definitely hard to learn to play a different sized set of pedals. There's a reason the AGO standard was established as a standard. All ADC organs, including the 420, were AGO except for the 220, 221 and 222.</p>

</p>

[RobW]

Hi circa,</p>

That's fine. I respect a person's attachment to an instrument. No harm, no foul. :)</p>

The organ the local Allen dealer has is too expensive. I have received an email in which he says he can get $3000 for it. (Good luck!) I really don't have the means for this purchase. I am going to have to beg and borrow to get an organ in the house. That's OK. My kid is worth it.</p>

Anyway, I didn't know this organ was yours. It was the first instrument I've seen that had a reasonable price on it. I'll keep looking. I have time.</p>

Enjoy playing! I love the sound of the organ and am glad you enjoy it so much.</p>


</p>

[RobW]

Hi circa,</p>

That's fine. I respect a person's attachment to an instrument. No harm, no foul. :)</p>

The organ the local Allen dealer has is too expensive. I have received an email in which he says he can get $3000 for it. (Good luck!) I really don't have the means for this purchase. I am going to have to beg and borrow to get an organ in the house. That's OK. My kid is worth it.</p>

Anyway, I didn't know this organ was yours. It was the first instrument I've seen that had a reasonable price on it. I'll keep looking. I have time.</p>

Enjoy playing! I love the sound of the organ and am glad you enjoy it so much. Thanks, too, for your honesty. I appreciate it.
</p>


</p>

[circa1949]

RobW you have been sent a private message by me. Click on the "inbox" link on the upper RH of this screen.</p>

</p>

</p>

[CDDuBois]

You might want to try web searching on &lt;"organ" site:grandrapids.craigslist.org&gt; (without the wedges). I just did this and found 141 hits. You can substitute anything else for "organ", like "allen organ" "rodgers organ" "church organ" or even "free organ". If grandrapids is the wrong place, then try detroit or wherever else you are near.

[RobW]

Thanks, CDD.</p>

I have a pretty good craigslist search engine. http://craigslist.thingweb.com/</p>

It lets me specify searches from local to country-wide. Thanks for the tip though[:)]</p>

Rob
</p>

[RobW]

Here is an Allen ADC-1105 on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&amp;it em=160323035715</P>


Seller offers a Best Offer option. Is the seller's price in range or would an offer be recommended? </P>


Just curious since the price is quite a bit above what I can do . . .</P>


Rob</P>

[Brandon Tuomikoski]

UGH! love that organ. Wish I had the $$$. Seems reasonable for an organ that large.</p>

</p>

wish I had any organ right now.</p>