View Full Version : Hauptwerk Vs. Artisan Sound Engine.
11-09-2008, 01:07 AM
I am about to begin my virtual pipe organ project using my existing Allen ADC2160A digital organ from around 1987. *The organ has MIDI for three channels (swell, great, and pedal). *This implementation of MIDI processes keying signals only and does not handle stops, combination action, or swell shoe and crescendo signals. * I am up in the air currently about*whether*to use Hauptwerk or another system called Sound Engine by Artisan Organs. *Do either of these systems have a way of addressing the issue of expression and crescendo using the console shoes? *What about the console general pistons? *Does anyone have experience with implementation of either of these systems where "KEYING ONLY" MIDI is encountered? Which system addresses stop control and expression best? *Opinions and advice on the pros and cons of each system would be much appreciated from parties not associated with either company, so I thought I'd check here. *Thanks, Allen
11-09-2008, 09:31 PM
You may be better off to jettison the factory MIDI and install a new interface if you want to use the existing tabs, expression, crescendo, capture pistons, etc. Allen MIDI in 1987 was not designed with those features in mind.</P>
On the other hand, if you could be content with augmenting the Allen voices with an external system such as HW or j-Organ, you might use a touch-screen monitor to control the stops, then have a competent organ audio person design an expression control that would tie into the Allen LDR expression shoes. Allen will sell you extra LDR cells for the existing shoes, if needed.</P>
It's even possible, though costly, to tap into the Allen capture system and have the pistons simultaneously control the Allen moving stops and some external PC organ at the same time. This would involve some opto-isolators and other exotic components, but would work if you wanted it to.</P>
But if you are planning to gut the console anyway, I'd just sell off the Allen components on ebay and use the cash to equip the console with a MIDI setup designed from the ground up to work with HW or Artisan.</P>
11-09-2008, 09:37 PM
BTW, the Allen 2160 is a pefectly decent organ and can be upgraded to send its audio into four or even six channels (if you put the card reader on its own channels). The audio system has extra inputs on the mixer board, so it's easy to pipe in the audio from an external device and have it express with the existing organ stops.</P>
My partner and I just finished putting MIDI on his church's ADC 3100 (very close to your 2160) and we ran his expander boxes into the organ's own audio with good results.</P>
You will also need to purchase from Al Johnson (a member of this forum) a MIDI transposer adapter which he designed for us, but which can be used on any Allen ADC series organ. (We found after putting the MIDI adapter on the Allen that Allen's board by itself does NOT transpose an attached MIDI device.)</P>
11-20-2008, 08:47 PM
"It's even possible, though costly, to tap into the Allen capture system
and have the pistons simultaneously control the Allen moving stops and
some external PC organ at the same time. This would involve some
opto-isolators and other exotic components, but would work if you
wanted it to."</p>
Yeah, I thought about doing this but realized it was above my level of expertise, unless I spent A LOT of time experimenting.</p>
You know what's so frustrating though? The serial line protocols from multiplexer to tone generator on ADC Allens are exactly the same for notes and stops. Just on a different sets of wires. At least this is what one of the original Allen digital product engineers told me. In theory, one could buy ANOTHER ADC midi board (pricey, but, hey, you're supporting Allen), flip the wires around, and have a midi signal where pressed notes would somehow correspond to selected stops. Then you'd have to program your laptop or computer running hauptwerk or whatever to convert those into stop selections.
Also agree about MADC-3s being nice organs. I talk a Hauptwerk talk - haha - but doing anything else to my organ is very low priority because I never got as serious about playing it as I once thought I would be. And when I do play it I'm pretty darn satisfied with the sound.</p>
06-28-2009, 12:21 AM
I suspect the Allen MDS can register the stops and pistons with MIDI. The Allen Smart Recorder will play MIDI files through the MDS and it will automatically register the organ. I hope that it will work with Hauptwerk Virtual Pipe Organ! I don't know about the swell shoes. Anyone know about upgrading the MDS with HW?
06-28-2009, 01:56 AM
I have been running Hauptwerk with an Allen ADC 2160A for several months and it works just fine. This organ only processes note keying signals through MIDI. I believe some if not all of the MDS series process at least stop signals if not swell and crescendo as well. </p>
Currently, I have disconnected the card reader inputs from the Allen's internal audio mixer and have piped the audio signal from Hauptwerk into the mixer board to the two channels formerly occupied by the card reader. In this way, I have been able to take advantage of expression with the Swell shoe and the organs built in digital reverb. </p>
Certainly more complex audio arrangements are possible if one wished to subdivide the Hauptwerk outputs into more channels. You could make the Great unenclosed by sending it to its own dedicated amp and speakers, or you could opt for divided expression. I have found the internal components of the Allen console fairly easy to identify and work with as well. </p>
I suspect the MDS series organs would be even more flexible and it would be easy to integrate stop control and probably swell and crescendo as well. </p>
I would love to get my hands on some more Allen amps and another mixer board or two so I could experiment with different audio configurations. </p>
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