obscure hymn tunes that merit attention

[circa1949]

I'm following Sb32's advice to start a new thread.</p>

Well - as for REPTON - it's nice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyGq3p1CMUc) enough, in fact I'd go with "above average", but not nearly as good as JERUSALEM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAA0A5WpZE4) in my opinion, which must be Parry's masterpiece. (please feel free to disagree or correct me if there's another Parry tune as good) BTW I can say as a non-organist, or rather a not very good, non-pro organist, Jerusalem is the most difficult standard hymn score I've ever seen. So many accidentals!</p>

That being said, I agree that REPTON is worthy of more attention on this side of the pond. Good suggestion Soubasse32.</p>

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[soubasse32]

I'm so glad you like REPTON. I was reluctant to post that sample from Cyberhymnal - all of theirsamples tend to sound like a cheap Casio coupled with a choir of submerged drowning people! [:S]</P>


My favorite incarnation of REPTON is the original from Parry's oratorio "Judith", titled Long since in Eygpt's plenteous Land. The piece gives me chills!</P>


The boychoir sings rather low in their range, and there are rapturous interludes (unfortunately missing from the hymn).</P>


For an audiosample, check out selection #2 on this page: http://www.classicsandjazz.co.uk/tssite/homepage.do;jsessionid=294CC82A5DDD0F466ACFD65B75B 3F98B?ruleset=release&amp;id=50191213</P>


Here are some wonderfulrenditions on YouTube:</P>


An all-out arrangement:</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxGsuybnUmw&amp;feature=related</P>


This one is guaranteed to produce a tear - the fellow is singing a duet with a recording of himself as a boy chorister - I'm glad he uses those beautiful interludes:</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj3PQY5BPnk&amp;feature=related</P>


Atruly lovely rendition:</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ManuuP97u2Q</P>


And perhaps the ultimate - a favorite hymn in a favorite setting:</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faNij71hh7o&amp;feature=related</P>

[soubasse32]

Oh yes, I love JERUSALEM as well!</P>


Here is a little treat:</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoIggVp41j4</P>

[circa1949]

"sound like a cheap Casio coupled with a choir of submerged drowning people!" ROTFL! AGREED! Actually when I first heard it, I was unimpressed, but decided to go find a better sounding version. Cyberhymnal II really out to feature links to actual performed versions; a lot of midis sound awful. Thanks for the links I'll check them out.</p>




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[Ludwig tone]

Our new ELCA hymnal lists 3 sets of texts for REPTON. It is a lovely tune. One text is "Give Thanks for all the Saints", the second is "How Clear is Our Vocation, Lord" [:^)] and the third is "He Comes to Us as One Unknown". The last, for Advent, is the text that got this tune on the map so to speak. I love the "Dear Lord and Father" text to this tune too. Jerusalem has made a big splash these last couple of years too. Not only is it our hymnal with a justice/peace text, there are concertato's and handbell arrangements now published. Gee the Lutherans are getting so Anglican!!![:D]</P>


A newer tune for us is Raabe, paired with the text "Day of Arising". An Easter text, wesang it last week. It's a Carl Schalk tune, whom we Lutherans love!!! Also lovely is Union Seminary with 2 texts, one for the time after Epiphany and the other a Pentecost text. It's by Harold Friedell.</P>


My other favorite 'new' tune, at least to our hymnal is "Michael" by Herbert Howells. It's well paired with the text "All My Hope on God is Founded".</P>


Both tunes are unmetered, but flow nicely and their melodic patterns are quite interesting. They're not necessarily ones that a regular congregant would pick up in one hearing, but I think that's part of what makes an enduring melody. Something with a bit of substance that catches in the brain to be sung all week! </P>

[soubasse32]

Thanks for reminding me of MICHAEL - a very nice tune, probably not known to many in the U.S.</P>


I have played this, somewhere. But I just cannot remember the circumstance.</P>


I worked with an English conductor for many years - it is quite possible he programmed this hymn at one of our concerts.</P>


I hope folks don't mind my posting so many YouTube links- you can click on them if you like, or not. I like having some quickreferences to the hymns we are discussing...</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3nO6hqwCKQ</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z177T-JuFI</P>

[SimonS]

One last comment about Repton (and more specifically "Dear Lord and Father"): I find it virtually impossible to resist all kinds of vulgarama effects in the last verse as we go from "Speak through the earthquake, wind and fire" to "O still small voice of calm".

[nullogik]

I had a brief flick through my hymnals and found a number of tunes that I like, but have rarely heard sung in other Churches. I think these deserve more attention:</P>


Highwood 11 10 11 10 - R R Terry (Typically to the words: O perfect love...)</P>


This is a beautiful tune, but it must be sung fairly slowly to get the most out of it. Makes an ideal communion or offertory hymn IMO - nothing too bombastic or rousing.</P>


Surrey 88 88 88 - Henry Carey (Sung to: The Lord my pasture shall prepare).</P>


Nice jolly hymn in three time, hardly hear it sung and it doesn't feature in many hymnbooks either.</P>


Jesus My Lord 88 88 88 - anon. (Sung to: Jesus my Lord, my God, my all)</P>


This is a beautiful hymn tune that does not feature in any of the popular hymnbooks. I have it in a hymnbook that was a private print run, but I've yet to see it anywhere else. Also makes a nice communion or offertory hymn. Has anyone heard this one before?</P>


Tune: B-flat, G, E-flat | E-flat, D, E-flat | F, B-flat, A-flat |, A-flat, 2G | where 2 = minim, no number equals crotchet, hymn in 3/4 time</P>


Old Hall Green LM - John Crookall (O come and mourn with me a while)</P>


Saffron Walden 86 86 - Arthur Henry Brown</P>


Anyone heard of these? Do you like any of them?</P>

[Jason E]

sb32, thanks for posting all those wonderful YouTube versions of "Repton". How well I know the organ and acoustic of Westminster Abbey. What a treat is was to watch that!</p>

Repton is certainly a favourite of mine, and two hymnals on the "other side of the pond" have it that I know of: Episcopal Hymnal (#653) and the CS Hymnal (#50).</p>

A tune I'm extremely fond of is "Wolvercote". (NEH, #420) Don't know if it's very often sung in the States, though you'll find it in the Episcopal Hymnal (#289) and the CS Hymnal (#250).</p>


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[robmcw]

Soubasse, please continue to post Youtube links. Just when you think the world is going to hell in a hand basket, up pops Aled Jones doing a duet with his younger self. Beautiful!

[SimonS]

Hi nullogik,</p>

Highwood, Surrey and Saffron Walden are all fairly regularly sung here, although to different words than those you have suggested. I like all of them.</p>

Si</p>

[davidecasteel]

nullogik, none of the tunes you listed are in the UMC hymnal here in the US; I have never run across them in my other experiences, either (such as the various military hymnals, which do include a wider variety of hymnody). I have already commented on the other (dislike) thread that WOLVERCOTE is also not available to us.</P>


Having attended a few Anglican services in GB and here, I have come to the conclusion that there is very little shared hymnody between them. Only at Christmas and Easter (a little) do I find the same words married to the same tunes. We do have a lot of Charles Wesleyhymns (66 in the current hymnal, I think, but we did have more in the previous edition--the survey under way does ask if more Wesley hymns should be included, and I answered YES). Our American-born tunes are probably denounced in the Mother Country as too simplistic, rustic, and crude, requiring no ability to sing them. Guilty, your honor. I know that most UMC congregations would be totally at sea to attempt most Anglican tunes; it was not so when I was a youth--Methodists then sang lustily and many in the pews were able to read music for singing fairly well and we did handle more difficult tunes much better. We regularly sang EBENEZER, for example, and BRYN CALFARIA. I think that among true hymns, CWM RHONDDA is still one of the most popular; I was gratified to find that the latest edition of the hymnal restored the bass voice run up to the 7th at the end of the penultimate section (and our bass section just loves it!). I have nightmares about the church at large attempting to sing SAGINA, which is 88888888 and practically none of the sections are the same as ony of the others. I love the tune, but I think it is relegated to being sung by the choir as an anthem (we have a beauty!). Most of the old Welsh tunes (except CWM RHONDDA) are losing their following. The churches are doing more and more of the "religious nursery rhymes" that someone mentioned. (How many times do you have to sing "My God is an Awesome God" before He gets the idea? I think hymns are best based on scripture, either directly or from good paraphrases--they should teach. Praise hymns (bad terminology) and choruses don't say anything except "God is great" (shades of "Allahu akbar") and there is more to faith than that.</P>


Sorry. I'll get off my high horse now. I just get so frustrated with the crap and pap that is being sung in church these days.</P>


David</P>

[SimonS]

Well as time goes on it's becoming obvious that this thread title has no real meaning across cultural and geographic divides. One man's obscure is another man's stalwart, and I've no idea at this stage what could be considered obscure or otherwise.</p>

That said, I found myself humming Picardy this morning (used for "Let all mortal flesh keep silence" around here). It's a tune I like, and it doesn't seem very common. It's in a minor key, which is always a bit different for hymns, very singable, and congregations seem to respond well to it.
</p>

[Tutti]

I'm so glad you like REPTON. I was reluctant to post that sample from Cyberhymnal - all of theirsamples tend to sound like a cheap Casio coupled with a choir of submerged drowning people! [:S]</p>

</p>

You realize cyberhymnal merely plays the sounds on YOUR computer. . . so if you think it sounds bad. . . well. . . it's actually your fault. :)</p>

</p>

That said, it IS a little bizarre that they include the voices in the mid. I would just use the GM Pipe Organ.</p>

[Ludwig tone]

Well as time goes on it's becoming obvious that this thread title has no real meaning across cultural and geographic divides. One man's obscure is another man's stalwart, and I've no idea at this stage what could be considered obscure or otherwise.</P>


That said, I found myself humming Picardy this morning (used for "Let all mortal flesh keep silence" around here). It's a tune I like, and it doesn't seem very common. It's in a minor key, which is always a bit different for hymns, very singable, and congregations seem to respond well to it.
</P>


</P>


I am not surprised at this at all. Even within a city you'll have differences from congregation to congregation.I think it depends on the past experience and preferencesof the music staff and/or pastoral staff. What ever they like and are familiar withbecomes the language of the congregation.If the staff is sensitive enough, they also know what the congregation will respond to. We use the Sundays and Seasons guides, which correspond to the lectionary, to guide our hymn selections. But it ultimately comes down to what we know and are willing to teach.</P>


There is such an explosion of new hymnals that have resurrected tunes, retired others and even brought in all of the world tunes. Then too, with the projected screens [8-)]and printed service guides, along with the copyright licensing, almost anything is fair game to use. Our music lexicon has gone global!</P>


We sing the Picardy tune with differenttexts a couple of times a year, usually during Advent,on the last Sunday of Epiphany as we retire the Alleluia, and usually as a communionhymn during the season after Pentecost. (I find it interesting on occasion to end the tonic chord on the last verse in the MAJOR,[:)] depending on the hymns placement, and the service it's sung in.)</P>


I've found this thread interesting and have seen some tunes I'd never heard of before. Let's keep it going!!! [:D]</P>

[Ludwig tone]

. I just get so frustrated with the crap and pap that is being sung in church these days.</P>


David</P>


</P>


David,</P>


Shall we begin another thread on this topic?</P>


I wonder how much of this can be attributed to the loss of music education in our public schools? We are not a public singing culture anymore. If we sang more in schools, in class (National anthem, My country 'tis of thee, etc.) in choirs and glee club, had a stronger basic music appreciation base, would we more inclined to demand church music with some integrity? How much is the current trend to 'entertainment' based worship, where everything is done 'up front' and the congregation sits and listens to blame? How about the populations demand for instant satisfaction and fufillment? It drives me CRAZY [:@]each week to hear my senior minister tell folks he hopes everyone 'enjoys' the worship service!!!!!!!!! Unfortuanately, it's a big can of worms with no easy answers. I think the only thing we can do is try to educate our pastors while they're in seminary, ourselves and collegues through the music fraterities and denominational resources, and then the congregations we serve. If you give a child hamburger all the time, how can you expect them to appreciate steak? [:P]</P>

[davidecasteel]

Ludwig Tone, there is already another thread that touches on this topic--it's about Screens.</P>


David</P>

[njschranz]

Here's a hymn tune that I betfew, if any, haveheard before. Of all places it is found in a mid-west regional hymnal of the RC Church and it comes from an Episcopal Seminary. It's called The Seminary Hymn, with text by John Henry Newman and the tune, Nashotah House, is written by Canon Joseph Anthony Kucharski.</P>


http://www.nashotah.edu/audio.htm</P>


scroll about half way down the page for the exact link. Organ accompaniment and congregation melody insert are available through the seminary library fora free will offering. I heard this at the Episcopal Cathedral in Albuquerque while visiting family. We are thinking of doing it on Trinity Sunday as a choir piece and then a few weeks later we will do it as a congregational hymn. Our congregation picks up new music rather quickly and the tune is catchy so it should not be a problem.</P>

[Ludwig tone]

I know. I was trying to sympathize with you in general. Most of my post did that. I apologize forbreech of forum etiquet. I'll post no more.

[davidecasteel]

What breach of forum etiquette? I wasn't complaining, just suggesting that it wasn't necessary to begin a new topic. For Heaven's sake, don't stop posting!</P>


David</P>

[robmcw]

The Seminary Hymn is very beautiful. I live in Milwaukee, WI and know Joseph very well. We in Milwaukee are blessed to have such a gifted musician in our city.

Rob

[NassauMike]

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Sincethis threadseems to have alot of interest in hymntunes, I thought I wouldsee if any of you might be ableto help mewith this.Does anyone know the name of the tune or hymn that goes as follows: (The dots are myfeeble attempt at rhythm, each dot being a beat)</P>


G major: *(8) is one octave from root</P>


G.. A. B.G. B. C. D. E.. D.. D. G. F#. G..</P>


G(8).E.F#. G(8). F#. E.. D. B. A .G. A. B. C. D..</P>


D. G(8).. D. E. D. C. B. A.. E. D. G. F#. G... </P>


If I remember correctlyeveryverseends in 'Deliver us good lord' or something like that. I can remember this lovely tunefrom school, but have not heard it since - Anyone recognise it? I really want to find the score andwordsfor this.
any help appreciated!</P>


Mike</P>

[Mendelssohn]

<p mce_keep="true"></p>


Sincethis threadseems to have alot of interest in hymntunes, I thought I wouldsee if any of you might be ableto help mewith this.Does anyone know the name of the tune or hymn that goes as follows: (The dots are myfeeble attempt at rhythm, each dot being a beat)</p>


G major: *(8) is one octave from root</p>


G.. A. B.G. B. C. D. E.. D.. D. G. F#. G..</p>


G(8).E.F#. G(8). F#. E.. D. B. A .G. A. B. C. D..</p>


D. G(8).. D. E. D. C. B. A.. E. D. G. F#. G... </p>


If I remember correctlyeveryverseends in 'Deliver us good lord' or something like that. I can remember this lovely tunefrom school, but have not heard it since - Anyone recognise it? I really want to find the score andwordsfor this.
any help appreciated!</p>


Mike</p>

</p>

It doesn't match up perfectly to what you typed, but the rhythm that you notated helped. I think you are thinking of the tune MONK'S GATE.
</p>

[SimonS]

I think you're right, Mendelssohn. "He who would Valiant Be, 'Gainst all disaster" etc. Good tune, that.

[NassauMike]

Mendelsshon,</P>


Monk's Gate - that's it - the repeated ending of every verse is ' TO BE A PILGRIM' I like this hymn. Haven't heard it in years and now I can learn it.</P>


THANKS!</P>


http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/h/w/hwhowvbe.htm</P>

[Mendelssohn]

No problem, I'm glad I got it right. [:D]

[davidecasteel]

Yeah, it's a great tune. I would never have figured out what was wanted, though. Even now, knowing the tune I can't match the notes to it.</P>


David</P>

[soubasse32]

I think I shall nominate this as my very favorite (obscure) hymn!</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZnPE3G_YY&amp;feature=related</P>


[:D]</P>


If I'm not mistaken, that's a nice shot of St. Edmundsbury Cathedral at the beginning. [:)]</P>

[SimonS]

SB32, that is absolutely brilliant. Thank you for that link, I'm laughing like a maniac here!

[NassauMike]

Great one,such majesty, such power, a certain ethereal quality is imparted with this fine rendition of 'Yes Im sitting, Happy Sailor'</P>


'Richard Gere, Please stand down!'</P>


'From celestial CRABS descending'</P>


LOLOLOLOL</P>

[davidecasteel]

My sides are splitting! I have no idea how that was done, but it was priceless! Richard Gere is definitely on my "don't watch" list.</P>


David</P>

[soubasse32]

I think I shall nominate this as my very favorite (obscure) hymn!</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ZnPE3G_YY&amp;feature=related</P>


[:D]</P>


If I'm not mistaken, that's a nice shot of St. Edmundsbury Cathedral at the beginning. [:)]</P>


</P>


I think that isSt. Edmundsbury in the entire video, now that I look a bit more closely.</P>


(I'm bumping this post, as I think a few more folks could standa wee bit of humor!)</P>


Jason? Choirmaster? Tumult? (and anyone else, especially in the U.K.) ...do you know this hymn? [6][:D]</P>

[Menschenstimme]

I think that I know the tune as "Christ is Made the Sure Foundation." What is the actual name of the tune? In our Worship II RC hymnal, "Christ is Made the Sure Foundation" is sung to Eden Church rather than this tune.

[davidecasteel]

We sing "Christ is Made the Sure Foundation" to REGENT SQUARE, which is not the tune in the video. I'm sure I have heard the tune before, and it appears to be 8.7.8.7.8.7--no D or Refrain. I have looked through our current hymnal and none of the tunes with that meter fit. I believe I have heard it used to the words of "Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus" somewhere--maybe on one of my British CDs.</P>


Well, I was able to find it on the Cyber Hymnal. The tune is WESTMINSTER ABBEY and is listed as an alternate tune for "Christ is Made the Sure Foundation" (the only hymn for which this tune is listed, by the way).</P>


David</P>

[SimonS]

The hymn is "Blessed City, Heavenly Salem", and the tune is indeed Westminster Abbey, which is used for a variety of hymns, but I'm certainly familiar with its use here. A version of the words is available: http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/b/b128.html although it doesn't seem to match exactly with the words sung in the clip. It's very close though, and makes you realise just how clever the makers of the clip were to come up with the "alternative" words.

[Menschenstimme]

In our RC (as opposed to arsey, LOL!) hymnal, WESTMINSTER ABBEY has the words "For the Healing of the Nations."

[alsmith]

One of my favorite tunes thatI rarely hear in the U.S. is THAXTED, from Holst's 'Jupiter.' Several hymns use this tune, including "O God of all Creation," "I Vow to Thee My Country," and "O God Beyond All Praising."</P>


http://youtube.com/watch?v=KHh8isGtB6w&amp;feature=related</P>
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[Menschenstimme]

I am very fond of THAXTED. Perhaps we would sing it more in the USA if our liturgists would only planet (sic).</P>


LOL!! [:$] [+o(]</P>

[davidecasteel]

I have to confess that I misspoke. I was looking in the prior edition of the UMC hymnal. The current edition does, indeed, include WESTMINSTER ABBEY and it is used for "Christ Is Made the Sure Foundation". Sorry. (I do like the tune!)</P>


THAXTED is a very nice tune. We have an anthem in which it is featured.</P>


David</P>

[Em at ELCA]

Don't know if this qualifies as obscure, but as far as I know the lovely tune In Paridisum has been published only in thenew(ish) Lutheran Service Book; of course, the magnificent Paul Gerhardt text has been around quite a few years &lt;g&gt;.</P>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh25Bn1OngI</P>
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[davidecasteel]

It certainly has an odd meter: 8.11.8.11</P>


David</P>