4-foot reed stop in pedal division

[Menschenstimme]

I have never been able to figure out nor get a satisfactory answer as to why some excellent contemporary organs that were obviously not designed on a tight budget lack a 4-foot pedal reed stop--even a borrowed one. I refer to larger 2-manualspecifications though smaller and even medium-sized 3-manual instruments.</P>


Personally, I use the Choral Bass 4' and similar stops more as part of the pedal principal chorus than as a cantus voice--although it may be used as a cantus voiceif one can find a soft enough balance in the manual stops. But that is not the point.</P>


The lack of a 4-foot pedal reed stop is more prevalent with trackers for obvious reasons--but certainly not limited to trackers. Once again, I am talking about contemporary instruments now, rather than vintage organs. One frequently encounters a pedal division such as:</P>


Principal 16, Bourdon 16, Octave 8, Gedackt 8, Choral Bass 4, Hohlflote 4, Flachflote 2, Mixture III, Posaune 16, Trompete 8.</P>


Even on a tracker, one can borrow some kind of a 4-foot pedal reed from somewhere somehow. Ideally, I would add a Schamlei 4 to this specification, but it could also be a small-scale Clarion 4, or a Krummhorn 4, or whatever. My main concern here is a cantus reed rather than a chorus reed.</P>


At my church we purposely (and purposefully) decided to have, in the pedal division, Clarion 4 (independent), Krummhorn 4 (borrowed from Swell Krummhorn 8) and Rohrschamlei 4 (borrowed from Choir Rohrschamlei 8).</P>


How would one register Bach's "Kommst Du Nun Jesu Vom Himmel Herunter" without a 4-foot pedal reed? Yes, you may be able to couple down a 4-foot manual reed or an 8-foot manual reed at 4-foot pitch; but what if it is a 2-manual organ and you need both of the manuals for the two independent flue registrations that this piece requires. You really cannot play the manual parts on one manual--your hands would overlap excessively.</P>


I have tried to anticipate the more obvious comebacks/objections here which has resulted in this post being somewhat excessive. But I really do want to hear your opinions on this issue. Has this ever bothered anyone else--or is it just me?</P>

[back52887]

I don't know what I would do without the 4' Rhorschalmei (independent) in the pedal of my church's 2 manual. I like to imrpovise a tocatta based on the closing hymn with the melody in the pedal as a postlude. the 4' choralbass (not independent) is too easily lost in any but the lightest counterpoint voices.</P>


Lee</P>

[back52887]

I don't know what I would do without the 4' Rhorschalmei (independent) in the pedal of my church's 2 manual. I like to imrpovise a tocatta based on the closing hymn with the melody in the pedal as a postlude. the 4' choralbass (not independent) is too easily lost in any but the lightest counterpoint voices.</P>


Lee</P>

[Bombarde32]

I've found that a lot of organists around my area view the pedal division as simply a rubmle/bass/support section and not something to be used as a major voice. Thus they see no need for a good 4' reed.</P>


As our new Phoenix was being designed I was asked if I wanted to trade a 4' for another 16' or 32' which is easy enough on a digital. I asked why since we had plenty of each. I was told that the big thing is to have lots and lots of selection at the 16' and 32' foot pitches.</P>


Perhaps people are moving towards "If I have enough power at the 32, 16 and 8 pitches then I don't need a 4' on top of it." ... I dunno. I think it is silly to have a large organ and no 4' reed. Even if it is borrowed off a swell trumpet or something.</P>

[Don Furr]

I brought my 8' Trompette down to the pedal at 8 &amp; 4 and added a 16' trompette. I've got plenty of pedal for an 18 rank organ (in the reed department). I've got only 2 unused drawknobs left in the pedal and can't decide what to use 'em for. It's a nice problem to have!!
Here's my pedal:
Trompette 16'
Bourdon 16'
Rohr Ged 16'
Principal 8' (fm great)
RohrFlute 8' (fm sw)
RohrFlute 4' (fm sw)
Choral Bass 2' (fm gt)
Flute D'amore 8' (fm sw)
Trompette 8' (fm sw)
Trompette 4' (fm sw)
Chimes
Resultant 32' (unused)

[back52887]

Don,</P>


Yes, a nice problem indeed! Have you thought about bringing down a mixture from the Swell or Great, if you have them? That could contribute to a clearer melody line, provided that the repeats in the mixtures don't conflict.</P>


Lee</P>

[Don Furr]

Hi Lee,
Yes, I've thought about bringing down my only mixture which is a 3 rank from the great. I've also thought about just adding another independent pedal rank. I've got a couple of switches that I could easily wire up for that. I'm putting a 8' Vox up in the swell and I guess I could bring that down to the pedal but I'm not sure that would be of much use.

[Bombarde32]

What about a 16' and 4'principal? You have the full complement of Reeds and flutes. But only the 8' Principal. Then swap out the 2' Choral Bass for the mixture.</P>


Or just go with 8/4 Principal, keep the 2' and add the mixture (scrapping the 16' idea). You do already have a Bourdon and gedeckt so I don't know that you really need the 16' principal. Still ... it might be nice.</P>


I don't know that I would use the Vox either. You already have the Gedeckt ... so you don't really need something soft for balance down there.</P>


You could always pull in a mutation as well ... but I agree with the others that the mixture would probably be better.</P>

[Don Furr]

Bombarde32,
Thanks for your ideas. I made a fatal error on my original listing. The Choral Bass IS the 4' Octave, not a 2'. Sorry, my bad!! I haven't replaced the drawknob stop names yet as I was waiting to make all the changes and additions before placing an order. Gosh there so many names you can call a rank of pipes one gets a little overwhelmed deciding what exactly to call a "flute forever" he he !!
I'm thinking like the rest of you guys.....bringing down the mixture makes more sense than anything else. I've still got one drawknob left ..... the unused 32' resultant knob. Problem with the 32' drawknob is that it was added as a digital 32 so it's not even in the combination action. I think I'll just paint a smiley face on it and call it a day!!

[soundboarddude]

I think I'll just paint a smiley face on it and call it a day!!

haha... the Happy stop! ...first of it's kind!


Hmm, it's somewhat strange at St. Matthias'. There's a 4' Clarion in the pedal but there wasn't one on the manuals. I wished they would have put a 4' Clarion on the Great and then borrowed it to put on the pedals. However, if I had to take one of the two, I'd have it on the pedal anyways, so I guess they got that part right!

[Don Furr]

I've got one more idea. Someone tell me if it's crazy.
Instead of bringing down the 3 rank great mixture to the pedal, I can bring down the Nazard (rather bright in sound) and the 2' 15th from the great and have sorta a Grave Mixture.
Somebody stop me.......I'm getting all these crazy ideas!!!!

[soubasse32]

Hmm, it's somewhat strange at St. Matthias'. There's a 4' Clarion in the pedal but there wasn't one on the manuals. I wished they would have put a 4' Clarion on the Great and then borrowed it to put on the pedals.</P>


Perhaps the acoustic of that church favors trebles (so many American churches do);if so, the builder - wisely - didn't want to assault the congregations ears!</P>


Another thought - your organ sounds like it could do justice to the classic French "Plein jeu" (Great &amp; Choir plenum; Pedal reeds 8' &amp; 4').</P>


Don, your Pedal division could sure use some more independent stops! If youare able toadd some pipes, do. Especially in the 8' range.</P>


When confronted with the two options of borrowing 8's and 4's from manual stops vs. extending them from Pedal 16's, I would always choose to extend from Pedal ranks (thus keeping the Pedal a separate entity).</P>


I don't think borrowing a manual mixture (or manual upperwork) to the Pedal is a good idea; think about how you will use it. You would not likely have the Pedal mixture on without having the manual mixture on, and if the manual mixture is on you probably would have coupled that division to the Pedal anyway.</P>


That was complicated to write [:P] I hope it makes some sense?</P>


If you want Pedal upperwork, think of bringing it UP from the Pedal ranks, rather than borrowing it DOWN from the manuals. A 4' Octave can go up to 2' (if it is scaled properly) andinstalling an independent2 2/3' is pretty easy.</P>


PS: Will your organ have a 32' Resultant, or not? (I'm not clear about that). If not, you should! It is very easy to do, and in most cases itis convincingenough to give a little extra drama to the organ.</P>