Allen Renaissance Quantum Organs

[soundboarddude]

At church we have a Renaissance Quantum organ with 9 ranks of Reuter pipes. Closest Quantum organ to spec (http://www.allenorgan.com/www/products/q275/q275.asp) and Organ installation (http://www.allenorgan.com/www/news/allenews/custom/st_matthias_dallas/news1.html)

I have two questions:

1. How do I go about setting the crescendo? I don't think this would be an issue if it didn't have pipes, but each time more stops are added, it's too much of a major addition, and it's not a smooth build up. I can go to the thing on the module that shows me exactly what stops go when, but I can't figure out how to actually set them.

2. The closest model I can find to this organ is the 275, although it's not exactly a 275. The 275 advertises "4 organs in one", so assuming it's almost the same thing, how do I get the other organs sounds?

[radagast]

Is there an owner's manual with the organ? If not, have you called the dealer? I am pretty sure you have to go to the Console Controller to access the Quad Suite. The CC is a pull out drawer on the left side.

[soundboarddude]

Radagast,

I believe the church went straight through Reuter and Reuter actually got the console from Allen.

In other words, a dealer wasn't really involved, and I don't think Reuter would know the answer.

The console controler is where the organ is tuned and what not, and also where I can see what stops come on in the crescendo, but I have no idea how to actually set what comes on in each stage.

Just calling the Allen company might answer my questions about the crescendo... I'm hoping this is relatively easy to do...

[toodles]

Allen has their owners manuals on their websites under the Owners Club section. Signup for membership, and download the manual. There's a manual that includes a Heritage model which sounds like it might apply to your organ.

Toodles.

[NYCFarmboy]

did you contact Reuter directly? (http://www.reuterorgan.com I think)

They have always been most helpful to me with my Reuter. I know they keep a file with the contracts/specs/blueprints of every organ they ever built so I'm sure they would have something or at least a contact at Allen to help you out.

[dstory]

SoundboardDude - I'm sure the way to set up the Crescendo is in the Console Controller functions but I haven't had enough experience in working with one to tell you exactly how to do it. I'm sure it will involve using one of the buttons to scroll thru the options until you find a setting on the screen relating to the Crescendo. This should be detailed in the Owners Manual and you can probably call or email the Allen factory for help. On the older MDS series you used the Set or Recall button to scroll but I believe the new console controller which is much more elaborate uses a slightly different system.</P>


Two other items - one, the organ is either a Quantum or a Renaissance, not both. And most likely it was put together by Allen, not Reuter. Allen does make pairings of pipes and digital equipment and it most likely uses a Heritage console which often offers many features as Standard which would be extra cost items on other models. These added options on non-Heritage consoles sometimes make the cost of the non-Heritage consoles more expensive than buying the loaded Heritage model.</P>

[Delirious Dan]

Now I am curious...If the Allen can be either a Ren or a Quantum, but not both, Why does Allen call these models "Renaissance Quantum" on their website?</P>

[IndianaBill]

Previously, on Allen's website, they had models known only as Renaissance organs. I still have a couple of sales literature sheets on them. I believe the Quantum element was introduced only a year or two ago, well after the Renaissance line had been available.</P>


I've been told that you still can order a Renaissance only organ through Allen. The local sales representative told me this within the past three months.</P>


They also now have the Lumitech Quantum, which seems to be a step down in features.</P>

[soundboarddude]

Sorry, y'all... I forgot about this thread. As an update:</P>


1. To set up the crescendo, you do go through the drawer on the left and go to the "Configure secondary tuttis and crescendos" (or something like that). Each stage of the secondary crescendo can be adjusted with the <U>pistons</U> (I didn't realize the pistons are how you set each level).</P>


2. I never was able to figure out the "4 organs in one" thing. However, I did figure out that the organs that have this feature have a display next to the rocking tablets that says which voicing it's set to, and mine doesn't have that. Oh well.</P>

[claudemichel]

1- I have a Renaissance Quantum Q260 at home for a few months. The interest of the 4 organs in one (choice between Neo-Baroque, Romantic Cavaillé, American Classic, English cathedral) is finally questionable, mainly once you have acquired some sample sets that can be played with Hautpwerk (with the right computer). On this side of the ocean (continental Europe) you are not going to use the American Classic or even the English cathedral, too far from our culture. Il you want to play Bach polyphony, the Allen Neo-Baroque is OK but a Gottfried Silbermann under Hauptwerk is better (Reinhardtsgrimmma mainy is perfect, the mixtures sound better that the Allen's one). If you want to play Couperin, the Neo-Baroque is also OK, but if you have the "frères Jullien's virtual organ" you may prefer this aesthetic. To play Franck you may also prefer to use the virtual Mainz organ (OrganArt Media) rather than the Allen Romantic. In my opinion, Hauptwerk2 (or MyOrgan for sample sets under Hauptwerk1) is a better solution at home. In a church there are legal questions to consider beside the risk to have the computer stollen.
2 - A question: the computer using Hauptwerk is connected on one stereo set, Allen's Ped-Great. There is no connector for the second set of loudspeakers corresponding to the Swell. It is a pity since Hauptwerk can direct stops to a second stereo source. Has anyone tried to make a connection ?

[radagast]

Now I am curious...If the Allen can be either a Ren or a Quantum, but not both, Why does Allen call these models "Renaissance Quantum" on their website?</P>


</P>


Renaissance has been replaced by Quantum completely except for a few Protege models. It's called Renaissance Quantum because it is an extension, or big upgrade, of the original Renaissance technology, not a completely new system, like it was when they switched from MDS to Renaissance. Allen is careful not to give false impressions about their technology, like calling Quantum a new generation. It's part of their business ethic.</P>

[Vercus]

Claudemichel,</P>


I am curious about your experience with Hauptwerk, as I am quite interested in that program. Do you have it? If so, what computer / keyboard hardware are you using with it? As far as the second audio output, I have been told that Hauptwerk supports multi-channel sound cards- i.e. SOund Blaster Audigy, etc. Or, you should be able to add a second sound card, and direct the swell to do that. That's what I did with my MidiTzer setup (virtual theatre organ) and it works out pretty nicely.</P>


As far as the Quad Suite selection, it is done through the Organ controller (slide out drawer on left side). As I remember, you have to find "Quad Suite" then select that, and you can scroll through the 4 organ types. If I remember correctly, you hold down the memory button on the controller, then press the "Set" piston on the organ. It's been a few months since I last visited Allen's headquarters, so I could be wrong. The organ selection indicator should flash while it's loading the new samples.</P>


I would be curious to see how Allen's samples stack up compared to Hauptwerk's. Hauptwerk's samples approach 4 GB for some of the larger organs- each and every pipe of every stop is sampled to 9-10 seconds long, with separate attack and stop samples for each pipe as well. Somehow, I doubt Allen has that much sample memory, but I could be wrong.</P>


It seems like if virtual organs continue on their current track, they could give traditional organ companies a real run for their money- especially for smaller installations. When you factor in the massive expandability (you can add another whole organ sample set for a few hundred bucks) it starts to sound pretty interesting. The major downside of course being the lack of a true console. Although I have heard of people midi-fying consoles and connecting them, but that drives your cost right back up.</P>


-Jon</P>

[claudemichel]

Yes I have Hauptwerk, full edition. Being retired, I have little use of a Dell work station (Dimension 8400 with Windows Pro, processor 3,4 GHz) I had to make heavy finite element analysis (in electromagnetism). Then I have added more RAM to reach 3 GOe (I don't need up to now 4), a sound card M-Audio Delta 1010LT (possibility of 4 stereo channels), and this computer is now dedicated to Hauptwerk 2.2 concert edition. I use the Mac/Intel for all other uses. Since I don't want to spent more time with the MIDI files than to play, I have put an add-on touch screen on the HP 17" LCD. Then with the sample sets of virtual organs, I select MIDI on the Allen and touch the stops on the virtual console, that's all. The computer is programmed to launch automatically my preferred virtual organ, the Silbermann of Reinhardtsgrimma from OrganArt Media. To load other sample sets, I go to the menu Organ\load stand-by organ x. The console of the new set comes up in a minute, excellent or poorly designed depending on the sources (excellent with organART).

Hauptwerk + the Audi card support indeed multi-channels. I now use the stereo amplifier / loudspeakers of the Allen Great for all divisions of the virtual organ. I still wait informations from Allen to tell me where the input of the swell amplifier with its two other loudspeakers is. This access for Midi application does not seem to be standard. Prof. Maier at OrganArt Media does not think it will bring more for the sample sets he is the author of. But for other sources I would be pleased to check the result when the virtual Swell use the Allen Swell channel.

For selection of one of the quad suite, you are right. But frankly, when you have a few good sample sets for Hauptwerk, you use only one suite out of the four for your main practice, and when you know well an organ work, you select the right historical sample set to play Bach, another to play Frank, anoher to play Couperin... I wonder what is the future of the expensive Allen Quad Suite!

Allen does not use the same technology as Hauptwerk and does not need such a large amount of memory. They are far to sample all pipes. Consequently the Allen needs much more time to "harmonize" (is this word used in english ?) the organ such as delivered. A full week may be not enough to do it properly for the 4 suites. Who does that ?? With OrganArt Media I had not a single sound to adjust; it is perfect unless you have a strong room resonance. In addition, even if Allen produce excellent organs, the "Fourniture, Cymbale, Plein-jeux..." sound better with Hauptwerk. I know that in continental Europe we are a very maniac with the sound of organs !!

[arie v]

Hi,

I believe that you are correct about the quality of a lot of the Hauptwerk samples. I think it is just a matter of time before prospective purchasers are going to have a Hauptwerk system as an option to buy.

I think you not only have to consider the future of Allen, but all the manufacturers of digi organs. From what I have heard from Hauptwerk, I would say samples are more real sounding than Rodgers, Johannus, Viscount, Ahlborn-Galanti etc. None of these companies use really long samples, high resolution, uncompressed, for every note of every stop. They all use some kind of proprietary hardware, which has severe design limits, mostly because of cost. Hauptwerk, by contrast is built on standard PC hardware, which is much more powerful, customizable, etc., and above all is constantly upgradeable. Also the hardware does not have to be developed, it is just a piggyback solution of something that is already there and used worldwide.

My guess is that as the Hauptwerk organ (and other similar systems) matures, I would give them another year before they become a viable alternative.

Amid already declining organ sales, Hauptwerk systems (or solutions as some would call it), is not good news for traditional manufacturers.

AV

[claudemichel]

Hi,

I fully agree. But things may go faster than we think. There is already a German (Herald Rapp : orgelbaurapp@t-online.de) who offers custom made consoles 100% dedicated to Hauptwerk (integrated computer). No need to have a basic Viscount, Johannus or the like. It seems to be consoles made with much care and probably not cheap. Other manufacturers will follow. I don't know yet what Audio chain is used. The client may use its own HiFi I assume.

The Allen's answer about independant access in the Quantum to the two amplifiers of Pedal/Great and Swell is negative. That's a pity for Hauptwerk.

Another point, but which may interest only the fans of mechanical trackers who are in Europe. The force versus displacement on the manual keys (and the pedal as well) is not pleasant on digital organs. Allen offers its (magnetic) track touch; I have it. But the Reed relays are activated only after a 3-5 mm stroke (there is a magnetic coupling between adjacent keys) which is more than with a good mechanical tracker on a pipe organ (1mm). Impossible to tie notes. I am rebuilding the magnetic command to get the same response on the Allen as on the pipe organ. Maybe new workshops such as OrgelbauRapp can offer this feature.

Not only companies buiding poor digital organs (several in Europe) will be affected, but also pipe organ builders. It is becoming more and more difficult for them to sell small pipe organs for private use: $ 55*000 in France for a 2 keyboards 3 stops only! The Bourdon 8 is common.

With virtual historical organs recorded properly with their own reverberation, the expensive implementation of a fast product of convolution (used by Allen in the Quantum and probably by others) is no more necessary.

Not so long ago, the devil was inside electronic organs for organists of my generation. The devil has been exorcized in a few years!