What would you do with 20 ranks of pipes?

[michaelhoddy]

One of my hobbies over the years has been designing specs for not large organs, but rather smaller ones- trying to get the most out of a smaller number of ranks. It's easy to dream up monster organs, but a lot harder to work with greater limitations. I admire the work of Jack Bethards/Schoenstein and Charles Kegg in this regard- for coming up with creative, musical compromises.

A 20-rank pipe organ seems to be the threshold (for me, at least) where the compromises seem to be minimized enough that you can end up with an organ that can do a lot of things well enough, and a few things very nicely.

So, if you were to design a 20-rank organ, what would it look like? Let's assume this is an organ that has to fit into a typical mid-sized church in terms of casework, chambers, and scaling, and whose duties include the typical church duties of hymn and choir accompaniment and service music, but also ability, within reason and the limitations of the size, to play literature. Let's also assume reasonable compromises like any competent builder would make- some unification and borrowing if desired, but not insanity (i.e. not 20 unit ranks extended from 32' to 1' pitch). Action can be whatever works- mechanical, electric, EP, with the knowledge that unification and borrowing, if needed are much easier and more space-efficient on electric actions.

So what would yours look like?

[hartleymartin]

20 ranks... It depends if you are also going to have sub and super octave couplers, but I suppose something I would have would look like:

Swell: (8 ranks)
16' Bordoun - A
8' Bordoun - A
8' Salicional
4' Flute
2' Diapason
III Mixture
8' Trumpet

Great: (9 ranks)

16' Double Diapason - A
8' Diapason - A
8' Flute
8' Gamba
4' Open Diapason - B
4' Flute
2-2/3' Nazard - B
2' Diapason - B
Mixture III
8' Oboe (Chorus Reed)

Pedal: (3 ranks, extended)
Open Diapason, Stopped Diapason and Reed

16' Open - A
16' Stopped - B
8' Open - A
8' Stopped - B
4' Open - A
16' Trombone - C
8' Trumpet - C

I remember reading that a 2-manual organ reaches full tonality at about 22 ranks (or was it 22 stops?) I believe that it can be useful to extend and unify some ranks of pipes such as having a 4', 2-2/3' and 2' Diapason on the great. I also feel that 16' and 8' stops in the pedal division can be unified, simply to save a bit of room and because it is rare to be playing parallel octaves on the pedals anyway. I suppose I'd like to add more to the Swell division, but as it stands you will probably get a reasonable performance out of the organ like this.

Of course, now that I've had access to a 3-manual instrument of 37 ranks with octave, suboctave and unison off couplers... I would really love to play more 3-manual instruments. However, they are vastly more expensive than the 2-manual sort, but there isn't much music which demands more than 2 manuals most of the time.

[bucketlistorgangrinder]

20 ranks... It depends if you are also going to have sub and super octave couplers, but I suppose something I would have would look like:

Swell: (8 ranks)
16' Bordoun - A
8' Bordoun - A
8' Salicional
4' Flute
2' Diapason
III Mixture
8' Trumpet

Great: (9 ranks)

16' Double Diapason - A
8' Diapason - A
8' Flute
8' Gamba
4' Open Diapason - B
4' Flute
2-2/3' Nazard - B
2' Diapason - B
Mixture III
8' Oboe (Chorus Reed)

Pedal: (3 ranks, extended)
Open Diapason, Stopped Diapason and Reed

16' Open - A
16' Stopped - B
8' Open - A
8' Stopped - B
4' Open - A
16' Trombone - C
8' Trumpet - C

I remember reading that a 2-manual organ reaches full tonality at about 22 ranks (or was it 22 stops?) I believe that it can be useful to extend and unify some ranks of pipes such as having a 4', 2-2/3' and 2' Diapason on the great. I also feel that 16' and 8' stops in the pedal division can be unified, simply to save a bit of room and because it is rare to be playing parallel octaves on the pedals anyway. I suppose I'd like to add more to the Swell division, but as it stands you will probably get a reasonable performance out of the organ like this.

Of course, now that I've had access to a 3-manual instrument of 37 ranks with octave, suboctave and unison off couplers... I would really love to play more 3-manual instruments. However, they are vastly more expensive than the 2-manual sort, but there isn't much music which demands more than 2 manuals most of the time.

oh the joys of fantasyland. For any of us who are married.... ;-) well that ends that lol

Harley has made a good start methinks- from my limited experience I would swap the oboe up into the swell, and the trumpet down to the great, and borrow the trumpet to the pedals for pedal solo line in more classical repertoire.

I must admit the thought of a 16 foot trombone on the pedals to round out the bass on fff would be magnificent but almost certainly budget would take it off the list ASAP.

the oboe borrowed and extended down to 16 foot on the pedals would provide a nice medium reed stop on the pedals.

I know I am borrowing from my Brisbane childhood (no pun intended) but an 8' cornopean on the swell can do wonders to provide a rich full reed presence in the swell when money is tight. Perhaps as a nod to the budget it could be extended to 16 foot and borrowed to the pedals if the trombone were struck off the list by the Board. 16 foot cornopean? never heard of one before but why not?

The one item I truly balk at is extending the great up to fifteenth. I remember a suburban organ in Brisbane which shall remain nameless- I think it is still in use- which was OK except that the builder had borrowed right through on the Great- AND had super octave couplers working over the top of that as well. even without the super octave coupler that fifteenth used to scream- particularly in only a moderate sized church. Maybe borrow the principal at 4 (on a heavy diapason even the thought of that makes me twitch) but most certainly twelfth and fifteenth as separate ranks.

I would be interested to hear comments from the "seasoned old hands" ;-)

[m&m's]

20 ranks... It depends if you are also going to have sub and super octave couplers, but I suppose something I would have would look like:

Swell: (8 ranks)
16' Bordoun - A
8' Bordoun - A
8' Salicional
4' Flute
2' Diapason
III Mixture
8' Trumpet

Great: (9 ranks)

16' Double Diapason - A
8' Diapason - A
8' Flute
8' Gamba
4' Open Diapason - B
4' Flute
2-2/3' Nazard - B
2' Diapason - B
Mixture III
8' Oboe (Chorus Reed)

Pedal: (3 ranks, extended)
Open Diapason, Stopped Diapason and Reed

16' Open - A
16' Stopped - B
8' Open - A
8' Stopped - B
4' Open - A
16' Trombone - C
8' Trumpet - C

I remember reading that a 2-manual organ reaches full tonality at about 22 ranks (or was it 22 stops?) I believe that it can be useful to extend and unify some ranks of pipes such as having a 4', 2-2/3' and 2' Diapason on the great. I also feel that 16' and 8' stops in the pedal division can be unified, simply to save a bit of room and because it is rare to be playing parallel octaves on the pedals anyway. I suppose I'd like to add more to the Swell division, but as it stands you will probably get a reasonable performance out of the organ like this.

Of course, now that I've had access to a 3-manual instrument of 37 ranks with octave, suboctave and unison off couplers... I would really love to play more 3-manual instruments. However, they are vastly more expensive than the 2-manual sort, but there isn't much music which demands more than 2 manuals most of the time.
I would put the Oboe in the Swell, and the Trumpet in the Great, which can then be duplexed to the Pedal and extended down an octave for the Trombone. Another poster had the idea of extending the Oboe down an octave and using it at 16' in the Pedal; I would also use it at 16' in the Swell.

I would not take the Great Nazard from a Diapason rank; rather, I would take it from a Flute. Also, in the Great, it might work better to take the Octave from the 8' Diapason, and make the 2' Octave independent, and I would prefer the 16' in the Great to come from the Gamba, as a Violone, rather than from the Diapason. It also could be duplexed down to the Pedal.

In the Pedal, duplex the 16' Bourdon down from the Swell, as a softer 16'. Another possibility would be a 32' Resultant in the Pedal, coming from the Stopped rank.

One last thought. Why not take both Flutes in the Great from the same rank, and use the extra rank as a Celeste, either with the Gamba in the Great, or with the Salicional in the Swell?

The result would be this, if all the things I mentioned are done:

Swell: (8 ranks)
16' Bordoun - A
8' Bordoun - A
8' Salicional
8' Vox Celeste
4' Flute
2' Diapason (Gemshorn might be a better choice here)
III Mixture
16' Bassoon
8' Oboe

Great: (9 ranks)

16' Violone - C
8' Diapason - A
8' Flute - B
8' Gamba - C
4' Open Diapason - A
4' Flute - B
2-2/3' Nazard - B
2' Diapason
Mixture III
8' Trumpet (Chorus Reed)

Pedal: (3 ranks, extended)
Open Diapason, Stopped Diapason and Reed

32' Resultant - B
16' Open - A
16' Stopped - B
16' Bourdon (SW)
16 Violone (GT)
8' Open - A
8' Stopped - B
4' Open - A
16' Trombone (GT)
16 Bassoon (SW)
8' Trumpet (GT)

At this point this organ is pretty complete. I see no need for octave couplers.

I could be very happy playing this in a church somewhere.

[Menschenstimme]

One of the Swell reeds could also be borrowed down to the Pedal as a 4-foot.

[m&m's]

One of the Swell reeds could also be borrowed down to the Pedal as a 4-foot.

Good idea-why didn't I think of that????????

[hartleymartin]

I'm glad to see that there are people here open to extended and borrowed ranks of pipes. There was a school of thought a while back that every single stop should have its own pipe. This wasn't necessarily historical, since I know that many organs shared a common bass octave between a couple of different stops to save on pipes (and room and money!)

I must have made a muddle to have the trumpet in the swell and the oboe on the great...

[hartleymartin]

I take it that the 32' resultant means that it is the 16' with a 10-2/3' from the same rank played at the same time to give the impression of a 32' stop. An open 32' would probable overpower a small church, but an open 16' would not (though it would be nice and heavy bass!)

[michaelhoddy]

A typical resultant would either be the two notes from the same rank, or the fundamental from the Subbass or main stopped pedal flute, and the fifth from a quieter stop, like (in this case) the Swell Bourdon.

[beel m]

@M&M's... I'd just add one thing to yours- a Sw-Sw 4 coupler, because of the string celeste.

[hartleymartin]

We didn't make mention of the use of sub and super octave couplers. One the swell I'd probably have a Sub-Octave, Unision Off and Super Octave, and on the Great there would be an octave coupler.

[m&m's]

@M&M's... I'd just add one thing to yours- a Sw-Sw 4 coupler, because of the string celeste.

Or just put a stop in for the strings at 4'.

[m&m's]

We didn't make mention of the use of sub and super octave couplers. One the swell I'd probably have a Sub-Octave, Unision Off and Super Octave, and on the Great there would be an octave coupler.

To each his own. I don't care for Octave couplers on the Great(and I suspect that most other classical organists would agree with me), and the only reason for Octave couplers on is for the Strings. With electric action it is simple enough (more simpler) to just have 4' strings provided in the stoplist.

[m&m's]

I take it that the 32' resultant means that it is the 16' with a 10-2/3' from the same rank played at the same time to give the impression of a 32' stop. An open 32' would probable overpower a small church, but an open 16' would not (though it would be nice and heavy bass!)
Yes, in the lowest octave. Above that the 16' Bourdon can simply play an octave lower to provide the 32' pitch. We have this on our church organ,and it is very effective.

[Ophicleide16]

Here we go

Great

Violone 16 A
Open Diapason 8 B
Stopped Diapason 8 C
Violin 8 A
Principal 4 B
Flute 4 C
Fifteenth 2 B
Mixture II
Trumpet 8 D
Clarion 8 D

Swell

Contra Geigen 16 E
Gamba 8 E
Dulciana 8
Voix Celeste 8
Open Diapason 8 F
Flute 4
Principal 4 F
Fifteenth 2 F
Mixture III
Double Trumpet 16 G
Cornopean 8 G
Oboe 8
Clarion 4 G

Choir

Gedackt 8 H
Flute 4 H
Piccolo 2 H
Clarinet 8 I
Orchestral Oboe 8
Trumpet 8 (from Great)

Pedal

Bourdon 16 K
Open Diapason 16 J
Bass Flute 8 K
Principal 8 J
Trombone 16 D
Chalumeau 16 I

Full couplers with octaves and sub octaves.