What Do I do with a Leslie 351?

[ljweber70]

I just inherited a mint condition Leslie 351. I play through a Hammond XK-1 but the Hammond rep told me there are no adapter kits available to connect an 8 pin (XK-1) to the 351's special 6 pin connector. It has to do with the 351 having 2 voltage pins for the 2 channels.

He said the 351 could be re-wired exactly like a 147 and then an XM-47 adaptor could be used to connect the Hammond to the Leslie.

Is this possible or recommended? I really would like to use the 351 and don't want to get rid of it.

Thanks

[TheAdmiral]

Yes that can be done. Just rewire the 6 pin on the amp. It basically means removing the input to the second channel and adding AC on that connector pin. You can then unplug the 2 tubes for the 2nd channel as they won't be needed and your amp will basically be a 147. Your tech seems to understand.

[ljweber70]

Ok, that's sounds good. The Hammond rep is not my tech -- I have to find one :-) Is there a possibility of damage doing this re-wire? Is it difficult? Will the 351 sound different? I'm not really interested in the 2nd reverb channel. I just want to have the Rotary and bass as with any Leslie enthusiast. The rep gave me the 147 schematic -- I guess I just need to find someone who can comprehend ......?

Just a bit concerned about re-wiring a mint speaker..
Thanks

[ljweber70]

Here is what his e-mail said -- are there 2 voltage pins on the 351??...:

"The XM-47 kit is for 147 type Leslies. The 351 and 251s 6 pin plug is wired
differently and has voltages on pins that would damage it using the stock
147 type kits.
If someone rewired the 351 so it no longer had the Aux amp and the pin outs
were exactly the same as 147 it would work.
This would require a tech to custom wire it for you. We do not get involved
in these modifications.

As for the A100 before 1980 there was a kit to hook up the 351 or 251 to the
A100 this kit is no longer available you would have to find one used
somewhere.
This kit had a model number of 8253

Regards
Ray"

[ljweber70]

And probably my last, most important question,

After spending several hundred dollars to have this done, will have a top notch Leslie Rotary sound? I plan on using it for recording in my studio, not on the road...

Thanks again

[TheAdmiral]

The only damage would be if someone didn't do it correctly. It should cost 50-75 dollars. Just because the amp looks mint does not mean it's in that good of condition. It's still 50 years old and the capacitors go bad from age not necessarily use.
It will sound almost like a 147 because it has the same parts in it except the horn is near the floor and not on top. That will sound different.

[Hamman]

Its a pretty easy "mod" that you could do yourself. If you would like I could run you through it.....but if you have never done soldering or electrical work then it might be best to have a tech do it. I wouldnt think "hundreds of dollars" but it might be close to 1 bill as far as prices go these days. But like the Admiral said if the amp has the older caps in it and condenser cans these should be changed as well.
Oh and that is a good Leslie for home or studio....not so good in live performances since the treble horn is torwards the floor....unless its all mic'd and you have a monitor....but then that wouldnt be the same

[tobeycat2007]

Maybe offer to swap with someone for 147 amp, 251 amp is rare and am some someone would be wiling to do swap, save you having to modify, would then have 247 model leslie as all you need to do is swap that amp over.

[hapbarb]

Hi - I, too, have come into contact (and possible ownership) of a model 351. Adding to the questions ljweber posted: It the speakers in a 351 are 6" x 9" (my understanding), can it REALLY sound like the 147 or 122, which have a 15" in them?

The person selling also has either a 147 or 122 (I've only seen pics), although that Leslie's amp may have at least 1 bad tube... which would be the best way to go?

Thanks,
Hapbarb

[jdoc]

the small speakers are only for the second channel not he rotory channel horn is at the bottom and it is a Decorator Leslie look it up on Captain Foldback under the Decorator series a very nice Leslie.

[TheAdmiral]

.. which would be the best way to go?



Depends on what kind of organ you're hooking to it.

[hapbarb]

Admiral, it will be a C-3.

[TheAdmiral]

Then go with the 122. It was made solely for it.

[hapbarb]

Even if there could be tube or other issues with it?

[Hamman]

Even if there could be tube or other issues with it?I'll buy the 251 amp off you if you want something else!:->

[TheAdmiral]

Even if there could be tube or other issues with it?

They are all old amps and will have issues at some time.

[hapbarb]

I'll buy the 251 amp off you if you want something else!:->

Hamman, if I do take both models, I'll let you know! :-)

[hapbarb]

They are all old amps and will have issues at some time.

Of course, Admiral - I appreciate your advice!

[hapbarb]

Review: I am not in the same city as the C3 and Leslies - so far, I am relying on pictures and phone conversations. What LOOKS like a 122 or 147 has a 47 nameplate on it. Pics online show that could be the case. SO - will a 47 sound as good as a 122 or 147 does with the C3, or would the 351 be better?

[Hamman]

The 47 would be better then the 351. Its easily convertable to a 2 speed with a Hampton or Carribean 2 speed controller using just the single speed motors. All the ones I have ever installed work flawlessly!

[jdoc]

$$$$ 351 for home if cheaper is a nice leslie, 2 speed conversion adds work and/or money.Damn styish in a retro sort of way too. Easier to pile more stuff on etyc. LMAO
Joe

[hapbarb]

Thanks, hamman & jdoc! I am much more comfortable with playing than "teching"; how much work and $ am I looking at to convert the 47 to a 2-speed? I assume that would be slow/fast as opposed to off/fast...

[TheAdmiral]

Just stick one of these in it:
http://www.tonewheelgeneral.com/build_page.php?item_no=MK1D

Or one of these:
http://www.goffprof.com/shopping.jsp?p=140

[hapbarb]

Admiral, now that we know it's a 47 with bad tubes and in need of a speed conversion unit vs. a working (but painted flat black) 351, which would you buy?

[TheAdmiral]

It would depend on the price. I prefer the 47 but if I got the 351, I'd buy an empty regular cabinet (there are plenty on ebay), put the 351 parts in it and trash the 351 cabinet.

[Hamman]

It would depend on the price. I prefer the 47 but if I got the 351, I'd buy an empty regular cabinet (there are plenty on ebay), put the 351 parts in it and trash the 351 cabinet.

Ditto that. If you are just using the 351 for at home or maybe in a small studio it works fine BUT the treble horn is residing towards the floor rather then being up at the top of a cabinet that is already double the height of a 351 cabinet. So the "highs" or treble is going to be more pronounced to your ears being at a closer distance( in a regular cab). If it were going in my house I wouldnt mind a 351 but if I were gigging with it or any other public arena I would go with the 47 and add the 2 speed conversion.

[hapbarb]

Gents, I'm VERY grateful for your time & advice! I am friends with the seller, and she is willing to negotiate with me - I would even feel comfortable showing her this forum. Taking into account two-speed conversion and other repairs (at least one tube, and perhaps a capacitor, according to our mutual friend), what would be a fair price for the 47?

Thanks again,

Hapbarb

[TheAdmiral]

Prices vary according to region of the country. Also what condition is the wood in? It's hard to make good appraisals without seeing at least pictures.

[hapbarb]

2256

ANOTHER friend, who lives in Tennessee (where the C-3 and Leslies are stored) took the pic for me; the seller & I both live in Oklahoma.

[TheAdmiral]

Probably 450-500 since it needs a little work. The cabinet's a little beat up. Very nice wood cabs bring much more. Look at ebay sold prices to see what the parts alone sell for and add them up. I think you need some more opinions from other areas too.