Re: Hammond M3 questions

[joseph]

also, when i have the L-122 and the M3 side by side, the M3 is a half a step higher in pitch. someone help!!

[Hammond101]

Problem #1 pedal volume, the pedal cut off may need adjusting. If set too high the volume will be too low. May indicate a tube problem or bad resistor in the preamp section.

Porblem #2 More info is needed. Is the L100 flat or is the M3 sharp? The problem could be with either instrument. Due you have a guitar tuner or a tuning fork to test them with?

[joseph]

Problem #1 - The pedal volume seems to get louder when I use the foot sustain. The volume decreases when I release the sustain.



Problem #2 - The L-122 is flat by one 1/2 step. I have a Kurzweil keyboard that I use to check them and the M3 is in tune with the Kurzweil. Is it possible to bring the L a 1/2 a step up?


how do i know when a tube or resistor is going bad? And where can i get replacment resistors.


Thank you so much for your help. Your a saint.


joseph.

[Orgrinder010]

The 1/2 step flat problem has got to be due to a gummed-up bearing. Unless there is something else slowing down the generator such as, something caught in the main axle, than my guess it would be a resisting bearing.
The 60Hz Sync-motor should NEVER go out of tune with the line frequency.

I would look at the motor side of the TG and work my way right, looking (as it runs) and listening for abnormalities.
I'm not playing the blame game here, but it sounds like the person you bought the organ from involved WD-40 into this affair.

[joseph]

The motor gets really hot after about 10 minunites of opperation. The lady who gave me the L-122 tried to oil it and i would bet farm she don't use Hammond oil. The motor was over oiled on my part as an accedent. So what is the best way of cleaning it out?


thank you.

[Hammond101]

Well, now we are getting somewhere! I agree with the above post about a gummed up TG on your L100. It would explain the motor getting hot (too much load) and the flat tones do to low RPM. I'm more familiar with the M3 run motor set up but I believe the L uses a single motor rather than the separate motors (start and run).

I'm going to try to give you some trouble shooting advice here on how to figure out what is going on. Without some test equipment it may end up a little funky and old school but stick with me. Spin the TGs oF both organs at the coupler by hand and compare the force it takes to spin both. If you can disconnect the drive springs between the coupler plates all the better. This way you will can see if the L100 requires more force to turn over. If this is the case, Do the Hammond oil thing I and everyone else recommended and the binding/gummyness should go away in a couple of weeks. If the TG seems free (and no squeeks or squawks) run the motor only with the TG disconnected and see if it heats up runnung with no load. If it gets hot, you will need to replace it, problem solved, hopefully either way. I don't think the motor is damaged from over lubrication.

Sounds like the pedal cut off is out of adjustment on the M3. I want to refer to my M3 service manual before I comment or try to explain the adjustment proceedure. There is an adjustment pot on the back of the amp and it is labled. I'll read up tonight and get back to you.

Please, please, please! Be careful in there. There is enough voltage and current under the hood of a Hammond to "KILL YOU 'TIL YOU'RE DEAD". Make sure it is unplugged and sits for a short while before you go rooting around in there. It is a good idea to remove rings and watches as they conduct electricity.

Later,

Rich

[joseph]

I tested the L-122 with the spring removed and the motor still gets very hot where to the point that it is almost untouchable. The TG rotates fairly easily by hand. Time for a L-100 motor search.

[Hammond101]

Try ebay or email the folks at www.vintageorgans.com, you might also try Goff Professional or Vintage Speakeasy. I have done business with all of them and they are all fine people. Sorry to hear of your motor. The good news is it didn't burn the house down! Someone made you get that M3 for a very good reason. Who says "Hammond Acquisition Syndrome" is not beneficial!

[Orgrinder010]

You know, You might be able to buy (or be given) another L-100 series for much less than a new motor.

[joseph]

It turns out that the capacitor is bad and that is causing the motor to run hot. here is where you can find the capacitors for cheap. http://www.famousparts.com/370vacovcasi.html 3.0 mfd 370 VAC is the one to use on a L-100 series.

[Hammond101]

That is good news. I kind of ruled out the bad cap as the unit starts on its own. I haven't played with one of those yet but certainly makes sense. Here is how to adjust the pedal cutoff on the M3. It is located on the back of the amp on the left side viewed from the rear. This is from the M3 svc. manual.

1) Set the pedal drawbar to its loudest setting. Floor the expression pedal. Leave the three pedal tabs up.

2) Play the highest pedal note then release it. After the note dies away turn the pot counter clockwise until the note reappears. Play the note again and wait at least 15 seconds for the note to die away. It won't die completely.

3) Slowly turn the pedal cutoff clockwise until the note just dissapears. Do not turn it any farther.

Hammond recomended this adjustment if the tube mentioned below is replaced.

If this doesn't bring the pedal volume back up the problem is most likely in the pedal section of the amplifier. The 6BA6 tube controls the pedal functions, pedal attact and pedal delay even pedal sustain. A capacitor is discharged and charged by several resistors to control the grid bias.
Any of the components in this section could be all or part of the problem. I can scan and email you the schematic if you wish. Bad resistors here are a common problem I am told.

I wish you continued good luck with your projects,

Rich

[joseph]

thanks Rich,

I did the three steps in your post and it seems to "ok" at best. I am going to change all the tubes as soon as I can. I would love to get a leslie for this. At my home church we have a B-3 with a 147 Leslie. Now i am starting a church from my living room and a Keyboard doesn't feel like home. I would love to replace all the resistors in the amp to make it sound better. Do you know where I can get the resistors (hopefully radioshack or simular)? Thanks for all your help; I really appreciate it.


send the schematics to: jrkeys88@yahoo.com

God Bless

[Hammond101]

Joseph,

You are very welcome. Glad to help out. The Leslie is the perfect solution to the lack of power and projection of an early Hammond spinet. I hope you find one for a resonable price. My main rig is an A100 with a 251 Leslie. Its actually a 51 that I 2-speeded. The perfect home rig in my opinion. The only thing I would rather have is the A105 model, the same electrics in a C cabinet. I just like the look and the lid on top. If you are patient it will come to you. I got the rig for very little money and did a little repair. The organ did not run so the Leslie was a question mark. I got lucky. The latest investment was a $50 M-111 that was also dead. I freed up the generator replaced a tube and wow, it's the best sounding spinet I have ever heard. I'll get the schematics out as soon as I can.

Best,

Rich

[back52887]

I didn't notice anyone mention it, but in your first post > think it was dormant for awhile because the oil cups where dry< The oil cups will be dry soon after filling them: They are not reservoirs. The oil passes directly into the mass of wicks that lead to the bearings, but it won't hurt to add extra oil if in doubt. The worst that could happen will be an oil stain on the baseboard.

As for a Leslie, you may have already discovered that they are not as cheap as the spinet organs. A functioning single chanel with tube amp, treble rotor horns and divider network can easily bring 1K. You can get a small leslie with a single drumrotor ( 25,125,110) that runs off the organs amp or with it's own small amp for as little as $100. It's good for showtunes but not so much for blues/jazz.

Lee

[Hammond101]

Right you are Lee, a Leslie can be a big investment. If you are looking for a specific model it may not be possible to find one locally. Shipping costs are also a big factor. A collector friend of mine has been looking for a 251 for his A105 for the last 6 months, nothing has turned up locally. 1.2K would be ok with him but another 3 to 5 bills for freight makes it a real "investment". I'm trying to find an empty 2 channel cabinet locally in So. Cal. I've been looking for 9 months and still no luck. I'd settle for a empty 710 and change the lower baffel board, still no luck. All the parts to put it together are cleaned, restored and tested. The woodwork can be hard to come by unless you have big $$ to throw around.

[Orgrinder010]

Look in the Newspaper every day, thats how I acquired my leslie. As I recall, the ad was something like: "Hammond Organ Great Cond. With Speaker"
Well, that could be anything from a big D-100 to a little Piper, but I went to check it out. I am glad I did because because the L-143 and leslie 125 being sold is my favorite rig.
I like the L100's (after modification) because of their tone. A 3-series organ seems to be heavy in the Bottom, and Heavy in the top, but lacks in the middle frequencies. I like the Expression curve of the L-100's better also.

Despite my above rambling....I would LOVE to find an M3, It's my dream organ (along with a model D with trek percussion, I don't know, something about a REAL chorus generator that makes me interested...).

[Hammond101]

Orgrinder,

Watching ebay auctions for items that don't get bid on or need repair has been good to me so far. We have 2 communities near by with a lot of retired folks. I'm going to subscribe to their local papers and keep a watch. Thanks for reminding me of the old technology, the newspaper! I'm always looking for a deal. I believe the old Hammonds and Leslie should be fixed and kept in circulation so they can be played.

Have you played an M-100? The one I now own, an M-111 has the greatest tone. The percussion is just super in response and the reverb is lush and full without being to "springy" The frequency response seem to be quite flat as you described in your L100 and it has a very jazzy key click. I connected it to a custom built two rotor 110 Leslie I have and the thing just rips. Do they all seem to sound this way? It sounds pretty good on its own internal speakers as well. Has a better growl than my A-100.

I'm just wondering if this instrument is an exception or the trend for the series. A friend of mine has just about one of everything crammed into his home. I've played his B3/122, A105/147, A100s, E100s and M3s (5 in the same room!). This silly M100 impresses me! go figure? Anyone have one and care to comment?

M3s seem quite plentifull and run the whole range of prices. The one I had was won on ebay for $112.50. I have seen many go for under $100 in claimed working condition. My experience with them is that if you are handy you can get one running for peanuts. adding a tone cab like an old JR-20 for $50 or so makes a real improvement in sound for very little money. I guess it depends what part of the country you are in how much you can find locally.

[back52887]

Hi rich'
Mine is an m-107 (ie: italian provincian case) I also, have an m-3, and I am impressed with the difference. The Celeste I & II variation on chorus and used with reverb is especially dreamy. The treble is not as bright as I would like, but I haven't tried switching out any tubes yet, nor have I tried running it through my 44W leslie either, which will increase the bite even without tremelo.

Org010: I played model Ds (called Gs there,) in old army chapels, and quite liked the real chorus mixed with the original tremelo, at least for "Ave Maria" and "Danny Boy", and if I had been more into blues back then I think it would have been neat. I'd like to get one for my own also, Or a BC or even an original E! I got my M-3 for $6 at an auction where noone knew how to start it, and the M107 was given to me because it was dead (Just needed oil actually). a

[back52887]

Hi rich'
Mine is an m-107 (ie: italian provincian case) I also, have an m-3, and I am impressed with the difference. The Celeste I & II variation on chorus and used with reverb is especially dreamy. The treble is not as bright as I would like, but I haven't tried switching out any tubes yet, nor have I tried running it through my 44W leslie either, which will increase the bite even without tremelo.

Org010: I played model Ds (called Gs there,) in old army chapels, and quite liked the real chorus mixed with the original tremelo, at least for "Ave Maria" and "Danny Boy", and if I had been more into blues back then I think it would have been neat. I'd like to get one for my own also, Or a BC or even an original E! I got my M-3 for $6 at an auction where noone knew how to start it, and the M107 was given to me because it was dead (Just needed oil actually).

Lee

[Orgrinder010]

Oh yes, I would love a big old model E, make that an EV.
I love the mechanics of the old (1930-1945) hammonds as compared to the newer tonewheel series.