The Organ Forum

Reed Guy,

This is a great post which contains some great wisdom.  I have done the same thing in several places where I played regularly.

Choirmaster,

Our personal lives are between us and God. God looks on our heart, and it does say in the Scripture, that we "should work out our own Salvation."  We should seek Salvation, and not religion unless we do end up in the midst of great confusion.  I have been "messed" up all of my life from some of the teachings of a big "religious" outfit that my Mother took me too when I was a small child until my teen years.  Yes, religion can "mess" up your head.

Tenor Trumpet 8':

Choirmaster,

Our personal lives are between us and God. God looks on our heart, and it does say in the Scripture, that we "should work out our own Salvation." 

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is precisely what Choirmaster has done.  What more does he need to say?  

My mother instilled a love in me for the Anglican church back when I was a lad.  Secretly, it was the music that initially grabbed my attention.  Faith came later.  Now with my upset at "official" condemnation of my lifestyle, how much longer before I'm another casualty of an institution that cannot tell the difference between an a** and a hole in the ground.  And the Church of England has the gall to wonder why they're loosing members? 

I'll try to stick around and see what fails first: my religion or my patience. 
 

I know that just a couple of years ago, when Gene Robinson was made Bishop, there was a huge stink about it because he was gay

Actually, that "stink" is still going on. In fact, hundreds of parishes across the nation have joined the Anglican Communion Network, and the Episcopal Church is about to get a huge slap in face in September when the primates from South America and Africa stick their feet down.

For whatever it's worth... The biggest misunderstanding about why so many people are upset with the Episcopal church is not because of homosexuality - it just happens to be manifested in that. People are upset because of the different interpretation of the Bible. People feel that in the Episcopal church, the Bible has changed from "The Word of God" to just a good book, and Jesus has changed from being the "Son of God" to just a good guy.

while the Episcopal Church is not a particularly right-wing establishment, there were/may still be members in the Episcopal church who really have a problem with matters of sexuality/alternative lifestyles.

Like I said, it's not exactly the issue people have problems with. But there are a whole lot more people against the Episcopal Church than you might think.

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Honestly, I'm not sure if this discussion is really fitting for these forums. Discussing what denomination you are is great, but talking about the conflicts in them isn't so great. After all, we're ultimately here to discuss the pipe organ; I would hate for someone on here to leave because of an argument on a thread such as this! 

 

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The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. - Johann Sebastian Bach
Baylor University School of Music

You know, we're all friends here (well, "virtual" friends, anyway), and I trust that this discussion will remain friendly.

Much wisdom in Reed Guy's post about keeping ourselves on a professional level. I like that Elvis Presley quote too. Yes, it's not my place to make pronouncements at church or anywhere else on subjects outside my field. Like Elvis, in some sense, I'm an entertainer, not a politician or moralist or theologian. (We keepers of the KOI may balk when called "entertainers," but in some sense that is how we are perceived by some in the church, like it or not.)

Much thanks for the good advice, Reed Guy.  You actually may have saved me a lot of trouble.  With all this dialogue going on, I had been seriously thinking about maybe making a little noise at church on this issue.  But after reading what you say, I've calmed down and will speak only with the greatest discretion.

Blessings on all who strive to make music and glorify God, even under the most trying circumstances. We are all just trying to use whatever gifts and abilities we have been given for the glory of God and the refreshment of the human soul.

Personally, I don't want to jeopardize my music ministry for the sake of making a few points.

John

 

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Rodgers 890 at church.
Baldwin D422 at home.
Scads of old organs in the shop! H E L P !!!

soundboarddude:

Honestly, I'm not sure if this discussion is really fitting for these forums. Discussing what denomination you are is great, but talking about the conflicts in them isn't so great. After all, we're ultimately here to discuss the pipe organ; I would hate for someone on here to leave because of an argument on a thread such as this! 

Hey matey, this forum is hardly all about pipe organs.  Most of the activity here seems more involved with electronic toasters, of which I know nothing about.  That said, posters like AndyG always have interesting things to say.  One can learn a lot.

But, with due respect, any organ forum is sooner or later going to have a thread dealing with religion.  Organs are usually found in churches, organists are usually on their payroll, and some of us are rather passionate about it.  Anyone who leaves this forum because of a theological issue is welcome to do so, but I won't.  There are too many interesting people here and I could never give enough gratitude for what I have learned.  Say what anybody will about me, I am not the same person I was when I first joined here in June of '06.  Cheers...

I'm with you on this one Jason.  Surely no one would take a walk because of THIS discussion.  I can't speak for the entire world, let alone the whole US of A, but around the southeast there are more organist with an alternative life style than not and these issues are all dear to our hearts.  I know of several in the Atlanta metro area struggling TODAY with what we're talking about.  One is considering leaving the faith.  This needs to be discussed.  Maybe we should move it to the Grease Pit.

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"The Organ is in truth the grandest, the most daring,
the most magnificent of all instruments invented by human genius."

I'm only trying to help. I personally have lost friends after debating these issues, and I don't want that to happen again.

Cheers! 

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The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. - Johann Sebastian Bach
Baylor University School of Music

Do you think we may ever reach a point where everything that has to do with the organ will have been discussed?

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First they came for the ABC consoles, then they came for the older consoles. When they finally got to the spinets, they were all gone.

Unfortunately for me, living in a country which is predominantly Roman Catholic (98% to be precise), I too have to keep my alternative lifestyle hidden. We frequently have letters in our national newspaper from Maltese, condemning this and that - I only wish they would keep their biased thoughts to themselves.

It really is a shame that many organists have to be met with this intolerance.

I am a Christian.  I play for/attend whichever church preaches the Bible and uses the Bible and it's literal interpretation to guide everything else they do.  If the church says something that the Bible doesn't, we part ways.

A recent example is when a pastor just recently said that the Bible commanded us to take Communion/Eucharist (on a regular basis), and that if we didn't we were condemned.  I thought that if a person took Communion/Eucharist unworthily (I Corinthians 11) they would bring damnation on themselves.  So, should a person be condemned or bring damnation on themselves?  Maybe repent?  Anyway . . . .

I find today, that people get so caught up in denominations, they miss the true meaning of Christianity.

Michael from Maine

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Allen Organs (505-B & ADC-6000), Frazee Pipe Organ (2/13 w/chimes),
Pump Organs (Estey, Sears & Roebuck, Mason & Hamlin, Chicago Cottage, Williams & Sons, Angelius, Cornish)
Pianos (Ivers sq. grand ca.1865, Ivers & Pond Upright-1929, Technics SX-PR600)

I was born and raised in the indepentant Christian church and now serve as organist in a Discipels of Christ, Christian Church.  We believe in Baptism by emersion and we take communion every Sunday as well as other issues that I won't go into at this time.  At our church the baptistery is surrounded by organ pipes.  One can get saved and deafened all at the same time.

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Acts 2:38
Psalm 150 (KJV)

I though we'd all done this recently.  Anyway I checked Presbyterian but we go to a non-liturgical Southern Baptist church where they love that Stamps-Baxter quartet stuff.  My wife and I keep going back to the fact that we wish we were PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) or something very similar but there isn't one in our area.

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Mark Pratt

Hammond 820 at church
Gulbransen President at home
Conn 628 Rhapsody gone

Good evening, All,

I do not recall seeing this thread earlier, even though it's been around for months.  I checked "Lutheran" in the survey, although I hasten to acknowledge that name, like the names of several other "mainline" denominations, covers a variety of organizations.  So, to be more specific, I'll quote my pastor, who says of himself, "I'm a member of the largest Lutheran denomination you've never heard of."

DR 

Missouri Synod Lutheran.  Talk about narrow minded!  Haven't gone for years.  I personally find inspiration in good church music, excellent hymns, and a well crafted sermon that doesn't point a finger at me.  Who of us doesn't want that?

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....."next" is a four letter word. Jay999