The Organ Forum

radagast:

Your question about denominations having such a doctrine doesn't make sense.  As a matter of practice, all churches I have been associated with,  in the denominations I have had dealings with,  have as a working practice the ideal that anyone involved in ministry believes the fundamental doctrines of Christianity.

So it isn't doctrine then. It is an ideal. You answered my question, thanks.

Like it or not, the divinity of Christ is one of the cornerstone doctrines of Christianity.  If you wish to argue that, you are out of your mind and totally out of touch with reality.

Do churches not base their theology on the Bible? Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus was God? It doesn't. Who's actually out of touch with reality? Care to explain why there were so many versions of Christianity that did NOT believe in the divinity of Jesus? And why they were forcibly destroyed by the new Orthodox church after Nicaea?

As far as the other stuff you are throwing out about Christ's message: this isn't a theological forum,

Then why did you bring up my spelling of god? Your own arguments are inconsistent. The fact that we agree on almost all of the musical question is blurred by the fact that you are a jerk when it comes to everything else (nitpicking on capitlization. . . I mean come on man). Why do you care so much about what I believe and nit pick every statement I make? My generation would call that "jock riding". I suggest you get off my jock and worry about yourself.

A spirited debate of subjects is encouraged, but name calling ("you are jerk") is not conducive to a civil discussion and is against Forum policy.  Please refrain from this sort of thing.

Thanks,
-Admin

Admin:

A spirited debate of subjects is encouraged, but name calling ("you are jerk") is not conducive to a civil discussion and is against Forum policy.  Please refrain from this sort of thing.

Thanks,
-Admin

Arbitrarily making and enforcing rules doesn't do anyone any good. As if calling a jerk is somehow worse than calling for someone's termination based on their religious belief. If it walks like a jerk and talks like a jerk. . . .getting on someone's case for not capitalizing "God" is not only a waste of time. . . it's jerky.

First, personal attacks have always been against the policy of this Forum and if you care to search you'll find that this policy has been stated and enforced many times.  For those who cannot control themselves, we have moderated status.

More to the point, this is my Forum, and I make the rules, arbitrary or not.  If you don't like them you're perfectly free to go elsewhere.

Finally, if you are offended by someone or something in a post, there is a link at the bottom of each post through which you can report an abuse.

Everybody get it?

I would feel a sense of personal loss if we had to do without either the Brown Wizard or the Stfortzando. As to the question of God or god, it is an issue of English Grammar, not theology, but the cyberworld is notorious for making it's own rules - though I must say that on this forum we are pretty correct most of the time.

 I would happily get into a discussion of Primitive VS Augustinian or Anastasian or even Gregorian Christianity, but untill we open a thread on "Organist's theology". I will wait

Can't we all just get along?

Lee

---

If you can keep your head
when all about you are losing theirs
and blaming it on you
Its just possible you haven't grasped the situation.

Regardless, this thread is as uncharacteristic of this forum as they get - it'd be nice to see it wiped off the map!

- N

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Like to read about pipe organ parts? - http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/organfixers/

Admin:

First, personal attacks have always been against the policy of this Forum and if you care to search you'll find that this policy has been stated and enforced many times.  For those who cannot control themselves, we have moderated status.

More to the point, this is my Forum, and I make the rules, arbitrary or not.  If you don't like them you're perfectly free to go elsewhere.

Finally, if you are offended by someone or something in a post, there is a link at the bottom of each post through which you can report an abuse.

Everybody get it?

I am also a moderator of a discussion group. Let's just say that we have different views on moderating. My point was that when you do what you did, you are in effect taking sides. Never a good thing for a moderator. If calling someone a jerk for being a jerk gets me moderated then by all means moderate me. And I will continue doing the same thing. I believe the populus should regulate themselves. Nitpicking a capital letter will get you called a jerk everytime in my book. That isn't a personal attack and if it is I suggest you get out more! :) And I really mean the smiley.

Can the moderators please try and stay out of this argument and not do anything heavy-handed like locking it? Surely we can have a heated debate once in a while. We can't all get along ALL the time, people have different opinions.

Fettler:

Can the moderators please try and stay out of this argument and not do anything heavy-handed like locking it? Surely we can have a heated debate once in a while. We can't all get along ALL the time, people have different opinions.

Yeah, and this has been a highly entertaining thread to read... 

There is never a problem with having a heated debate about the issues on this Forum.  Moderators step in when the debate ceases to be about the issue and becomes about personalities.

Nobody has been censored in this thread.  Both nycfarmboy and I have requested, in our capacity as Moderators that the policy against personal attacks be followed.

It's a very simple request that applies to all Forum participants and is not intended to single anyone out. Those unable to comply with this policy or express opposition to it will be placed on moderated status to pre-emptively head off potential flame wars that destroy the integrity of the thread.

The Grease Pit is the place for flame wars and as long as no objection is lodged by any of the combatants
they're free to get as far down in the muck as they they're willing to go without moderator intervention.
.

I've come in late to this little discussion. I've not read all of it yet, and I didn't read it earlier as I'm not really interested in praise bands. I'm a traditionalist of the Christian type.

From what I have read, I am quite intrigued with the seeming storm surrounding the name of one’s god. The way I see it, God or god or GOD is not his name; it’s what he is. Just as Man or man or MAN is not my name; it’s what I am.

In all of my studies, the name for the godhead was translated as “LORD”. The name LORD stood for the so-called unspeakable name of my God (also known as the Tetragrammaton). (This unspeakable name is sometimes written as YHWH, or Yahweh, or Jehovah.) Of course this was one traditional rendering of the name of my God. Sometimes he was called “I AM”.

Of course, his name as revealed through Christ for the Christians among us is “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (or Spirit)”. Interestinly enough, the idea of the Trinity can be found in the stories in Genesis where the theophany occured with Abraham. Also the vision of Isaiah in the books of the Old Covenant witness to the Trinity. Christians who follow the so-called catholic creeds also refer to Jesus, the Messiah, as God the Son. This can be confusing to non-Christians because it seems like there is  more than one god. The LORD is one in three persons, and the three persons are one in unity. There is only one. The so-called creed of Athanasius tries to explain this. The Nicene Creed also gives us a view into the mystery of the Blessed Trinity.

 All of this, of course, means nothing to an atheist friend of mine. He has quizzed me about my beliefs. When it comes down to it, my faith is based on something that is not provable or rational. Of course, I also have views different from some of the members of my own denomination. If it isn’t OK with them, they know what to do. And so do I.

 Here on the Organ Forum let’s talk about organs. Organs leading people singing whatever. Organs can add a joyful noise to praise bands or to the most solemn of High Masses. And AS foR caPitAl LetTErs, well they are just part of a convention. The unconventional may apply them however they see fit or not at all.

 

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Cole
http://heavyorgan.org

"Christians who follow the so-called catholic creeds"

What's that supposed to mean?

Fettler:

"Christians who follow the so-called catholic creeds"

What's that supposed to mean?

Calm down Fettler, "catholic" was not capitalized.  

Fettler:

"Christians who follow the so-called catholic creeds"

What's that supposed to mean?

The Roman Catholics, Anglicans (Episcopalians in the U.S.), Lutherans, and a few more follow or use the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, and sometimes the Athanasian Creed. Some Christians like the Baptists, Seventh-Day Adventists, and others don't use the creeds, but are truly Christian. They believe what is in the creeds (generally [please don't go off on this word--use Google to find out what other denominations believe]) but don't use the creeds as statements of belief in a formal way.

---

Cole
http://heavyorgan.org

Hi

Everyone,

WOW! This discussion about praise bands has certainly taken a turn!  Well, obviously Christians cannot agree on scripture, doctrine, Creeds ---ETC...This is why we have so many denominations, and this is not new..This has been going on since Christianity started right after the death and resurrection of Christ.  Why would it be any different today? People are still people after all.   I 'm a Christian , but I realize not everyone shares my interpretation of scripture.  When talking with people I try to find the "common ground" and focus on what we have in common, rather than focus on our differences.  I love "religion" (religion being the agreed rules/doctrines/dogmas.. ect.. people have agreed to worship and create community/fellowships under) but for me my walk with Jesus is a personal relationship and my music is part of that whether I go to church or not.  AMEN! End of sermon! LOL.. But as far as praise bands, out here in california they are very popular!  Organs are out!  There are 2 extremes.. Your a "liturgical church" and have a real pipe organ or a digital one that acts like a pipe organ.  Or, you are a "pentecostal" type church and have a hammond b-3/C-3 or something that resembles that.  Their is almost no middle ground.. I have seen a number of churches who dont have anyone playing their organs or they have gotten rid of the organ!  I'm not a big fan of contemporary music, but it does have its place.  I grew up on hymns, (and I still LOVE THEM!)but I know the times have changed. But, what I dont get is why the organ cannot be a part of that change.  I play at a "united church christ" (UCC)  church and they do a "blended" type of music.  A little of this , a little of that.  It works.  I play the Wurlitzer 4300 organ every Sunday(yes, folks that is a spinet!).   The organ can do ANY type of church music as far as I'm concerned.. Years ago in the early 90's, I was at another church where I was in a praise band, and I played the Conn 652 /710 Leslie in that band!  It worked! I think some of it is the skill of the musician of  knowing how to make the organ sound for a particular type of music.  I know some organs are limited on what they can do.  I have no musical degrees and Im not that great of a player, but I do my best and my PASSION for the organ I think really comes out in my playing.  I feel like I'm on a crusade to keep the organ alive.  People have a negative image of the organ and have "stereotyped" it.  And in Organist circles, your either a hammond lover or a pipe organ lover for the most part.  People like me who play (mostly spinets) of all different brands are unusual and kinda on our own. I truly like all organs. From Pipe to hammond, Spinets, consoles.  whatever!  They are all special and unique in their own ways. 

I dont believe praise bands are going away. I think they will increase.  I think as organists we have to show the organ can be a part of that.  (for me, that meant learning new music and developing new ways of playing and registrating the organ)  -Yes, Lets keep the organ alive , but lets challenge ourselves as well to keep up with the times as best we can. (never thought I would be saying that, I usually get set in my ways! LOL)

take care !

from,

Anthony , in Hayward, CA