The Organ Forum

quantum:

Interesting that some of Hymns mentioned are ones I like a lot.

There have been hymns in the past that I really disliked, and tried to avoid playing.  That is until I heard a really good interpretation of them.  I then realize if I think of interpreting a hymn in a different manner maybe it's meaning will become clearer to me. 

 

Well said!

---

First they came for the ABC consoles, then they came for the older consoles. When they finally got to the spinets, they were all gone.

I don't recognise a lot of the names here, but anything that even puts a big toe outside the traditional Anglican tradition (!) leaves me cold. That's been true since I was 15, and it's unlikely to change as I push onwards into my 30s. Anyway, some that I can't stand:

Great is thy Faithfulness -- dire dire dire, and always a struggle to keep it from dirge pace

I will cross the Barren Desert -- rector loved it, organists hated it

Amazing Grace -- we're not living in a John Wayne Western

Shine Jesus Shine and the equivalent -- Gah!

There are so many others, I just can't think of them. Eagle's Wings etc. don't even merit a mention

 

Moving swiftly on: 

NassauMike:

I would like to hear LOVE DIVINE, ALL LOVES EXCELLING (with the tune by John Stainer), it is so much more interesting to sing and hear, but this hymn is sung to HYFRYDOL with absolutely nooo exception at my church.

I really like Hyfrydol, but for Love Divine it's gotta be Blaenwern. Accept no substitutes. 

SimonS:

but for Love Divine it's gotta be Blaenwern. Accept no substitutes. 

The tune "Love Divine" (G1,G1, G0.5, A0.5, B1, A1, G1, F-Sharp1, D1) isn't bad either but its good for only four lines, so you have twice the number of verses. Its quite a jolly little tune but needs to go at a fair pace.

(Where G is the note and 1 is the beat ie. 1 = crotchet, 0.5 = quaver).

I must say that I don't mind "Shine, Jesus shine" its got some punch to it and the tune is quite is memorable.  Another "modern" hymn that I like is "I, the Lord of sea and sky".

---

Currently own:
ALLEN TC-3S (#42904 - 3rd Feb 1971) with Sequential Capture System

Speakers:
x1 Model 100 Gyro Cabinet
x1 Model 105 Cabinet
x3 Model 108 Cabinet

nullogik:

The tune "Love Divine" (G1,G1, G0.5, A0.5, B1, A1, G1, F-Sharp1, D1) isn't bad either but its good for only four lines, so you have twice the number of verses. Its quite a jolly little tune but needs to go at a fair pace.

(Where G is the note and 1 is the beat ie. 1 = crotchet, 0.5 = quaver).

 

Yep, I like that tune as well, and we sing it reasonably regularly for some other hymn (the words of which have slipped my mind). Still, I stand by my view that it's gotta be Blaenwern for Love Divine.

To be fair to Shine Jesus Shine, my problem isn't so much with the tune itself as with the effect it seems to have on our aging and rhythmically conservative congregation. They cope much better with I the Lord of Sea and Sky but, like Be Not Afraid (aka I will cross the Barren Desert) it's one that the rector loved and the organists grew to hate. Well, my colleague REALLY hated it, but I had a teeny tiny soft spot for it. Don't tell anyone.

My favourite tunes are probably Slane (Hewson's harmonisation), Abbott's Leigh and the aforementioned Blaenwern, but that's for another thread.

SimonS:

They cope much better with I the Lord of Sea and Sky but, like Be Not Afraid (aka I will cross the Barren Desert) it's one that the rector loved and the organists grew to hate. Well, my colleague REALLY hated it, but I had a teeny tiny soft spot for it. Don't tell anyone.

My favourite tunes are probably Slane (Hewson's harmonisation), Abbott's Leigh and the aforementioned Blaenwern, but that's for another thread.

To me, Be Not Afraid is a poorly written piece.  Musically the song goes nowhere - the refrain sounds way too much like the verses, and the chord progression lends itself to being played waaay toooo sloooww.   The accompanying music is just one of those meandering pop ballad structures - kind of reminds me of Maureen McGovern, Judy Collins, etc.  Just thought of something - in all fairness, was the song originally written for guitar/folk groups?  if so at least it would make some sense. 

Worse than the tune is the awkward meter (or lack thereof??).  I dread singing it in the choir; I can't imagine what a nightmare it must be to actually play it.  It's one of those pieces that nobody ever sings right anyway because of the clumsy dotted notes, etc, - never mind the fact that no two verses have the same number of syllables.  I was explicitly told NOT to sing the dotted notes the way they were written because it's "too hard" for the congregation.  Well, if it's that hard for the congregation to sing, why are we doing it?

The sad thing is the lyrics themselves are quite nice and I can understand why the song moves so many people.  I just find the musical structure of the song so distracting that I can't focus on the beauty of the lyrics.  Maybe I have to work on that...

-jim

---

Jimmy Williams
Gulbransen Model D, Leslie 204, hobby organist/technician

In the UMC, Love Divine, All Loves Excelling is sung to BEECHER, which is the first tune listed in the Cyber Hymnal for that text.  I am not familiar with any of the other tunes mentioned above for it except BLAENWERN, which is used in a CD of hymns I purchased in the UK on my trip last year.  I do like that tune and how it sets the text.  Of course, I am familiar with HYFRYDOL, which is used for several hymns in the UMC hymnal.

Considering that the Methodist Church (now the United Methodist Church) is directly descended from the Anglican Church, it constantly amazes me just how much difference exists in the tunes associated with various texts between the two groups.  I am guessing that in many cases it finally comes down to the use of tunes by American composers in the UMC and staying with British composers in the Anglican Church.  I confess that I find many of the old Anglican tunes to be very fine and inspiring, and in some cases superior to our American choices.  Our church choir has also been exposed to some of the tunes from "across the Pond" in anthem form recently (I mentioned SAGINA earlier) and we have all appreciated them.

It will be interesting to see how the survey by the UMC hymnal committee comes out.  I fear we will be inundated by youthful drivel.

David

davidecasteel:

I fear we will be inundated by youthful drivel.

...which, in my limited experience, rarely appeals to the "youth" anyway.
 

That "youthful drivel" has been called "holy nursery rhymes" by a N.S.W. pipe organ builder - very appropriately, in my opinion.

John Reimer

I was moved by DOMINUS REGIT ME (The King of Love my shepherd is), great hymn, love the lyrics and the words. It was sung at my Great Uncle's funeral at the local Anglican Cathedral and it stirred alot of people to tears.

NassuaMike, That is the hymn and tune I've chosen for my parish to sing during the Preparation at Mass this Sunday- while the priest is readying the altar. A lovely hymn and new to me - as soon as I sat down to learn it I fell in love with it. Gospel text is from John 10 - One Shepherd, One Fold.

........... SimonS says:  "...which, in my limited experience, rarely appeals to the "youth" anyway." ..............

A hearty amen here. When my kids were teenagers, a certain group within our church insisted that we try using some "worship choruses" with guitar. They said we needed to do this to "attract some young people" and "keep the youth interested" etc.

But my kids were both turned completely off by it, thought it was tacky and corny and didn't belong in the worship service. And I didn't prompt them to say that either. They just rather instinctively knew it wasn't good music.

I think the "youthful drivel" we are getting in so many churches is not really appealing to the youth at all. I think it's driven by the aging Boomers longing to re-live the rock and roll of their teenage years in the 60's and 70's. 

I'd hazard a guess that a great many teens and young adults would be far more impressed and spiritually moved by truly awesome, grand, majestic, well-done classical and liturgical worship that by the cheap, throwaway music many churches are using today in hopes of attracting youth.

So, I'll say that any piece of drivel in the rock/pop/rap style doesn't cut it for me. (I'll take my rock and roll straight, if it's OK. I'd rather play my old Beatles records than "worship" with a rock band.)

John

 

---

Rodgers 890 at church.
Baldwin D422 at home.
Scads of old organs in the shop! H E L P !!!

Well, Blaenwern is nice, but I personally prefer Stainer's tune - if there is a good choir and congregation Stainer offers more opportunity for harmonic developement. However, I would say Blaenwern would be easier to sing and has its own charm which will work better for some congregations - none the less both are nice tunes.

listen for yourself... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpbp9dXyM-A

My exposure to hymnody is pretty varied. I went to an evangelical primary school in The Bahamas which sang evangelical songs - modern american tunes mostly... However, a move to Barbados at the age of 10 exposed me to the rich musical culture of the anglican church - I remember being captivated by the tunes, the deepness of the words etc. There is only so far 'This is the day, this is the day that the Lord has made' can go...and yeah they had guitars and such, but to me I never got much out of it. I much agree with Jbird - I believe it is a shame that churches should abandon organs, traditional melodies and tradition in the name of bringing in new blood. I think it detracts from the experience altogether.

Blaenwern is Welsh, but my all time favourite Welsh tune is Cwm Rhondda (Guide me o thou great redeemer). Slane is Irish, shall I say the Brits have all the good hymn tunes cornered? Sure the Germans have their fare share, but what about other countries ? I notice a chord developing with the dislike of modern tunes, there are some pretty well written ones as well - but what about some older atrocities? I am sure there are a few in 'Hymns Ancient and Modern' worth being ommited?

Amen to that John, I know I may pass as being something other than a hogh school Senior, but I agree wholeheartedly with you John, Igve me a fine old hyumn any day over just about anything Haugen/Haas (I haven't had the misfortune of hearing their music, and would like to keep it that way), or any such drivel, disgusting music, whichj should be gathered up, and recycled, in this environmentally concious age, since we don't want to put out the greenhouse gases of a book burniung.

---

Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control

jbird604:

I think the "youthful drivel" we are getting in so many churches is not really appealing to the youth at all. I think it's driven by the aging Boomers longing to re-live the rock and roll of their teenage years in the 60's and 70's. 

I'd hazard a guess that a great many teens and young adults would be far more impressed and spiritually moved by truly awesome, grand, majestic, well-done classical and liturgical worship that by the cheap, throwaway music many churches are using today in hopes of attracting youth.

Not to take this too far OT, but here's an AMEN right back at ya! Like everything else, when people are exposed to a really fine example of something, they react well to it. Certainly, there's not much for the young in a 40bpm rendition of "Amazing Grace" performed by octagenarian women who like to sit at the front to show off their hats, but then again, there's not much for any age group in that. The answer isn't to replace it with a middle-aged take on what those crazy "young people" might like. Funnily enough, early music seems to go down very well at the moment, with plainchant being quite in vogue in certain circles. If simplicity and directness of musical message are required, that seems hard to beat.

NassauMike:

Slane is Irish, shall I say the Brits have all the good hymn tunes cornered?

If you ever visit Ireland, Mike, be careful with such utterances. Ireland is not a part of Britain!!

Nonetheless, I know what you mean, and I would certainly admit to liking these tunes best. I assumed it was due to exposure, but it's hard to tell. Of course, when I refer to "tunes", most of the time I'm thinking of the harmonies I know as well. Hymns that I really like can lose a lot of their lustre if the harmonies are inferior, or sometimes even if they're just different to what I know.

 

I love Sangina, but you must give it a bit of zip and drama, otherwise it can become a dirge and unenjoyable to sing.

A hymn prelude to 'Sangina' 

 

Thanks for posting that, well done! 

However, the tune is SAGINA.

'Sangina' means something else altogether. 

---

Soubasse32