The Organ Forum

What is your opinion of the Hammond T222 and the internal leslie?

---

First they came for the ABC consoles, then they came for the older consoles. When they finally got to the spinets, they were all gone.

Hammondlover:

What is your opinion of the Hammond T222 and the internal leslie?

I have a T-200 series organ.  I played one in a church when I was a teenager.  There are those who insist that there are no Leslies worth anything unless it is a double-rotor.  Well, the Leslie in the T-200, and above, was just fine.  For a spinet it was a great solution.  Hammond wasn't about to put in a slow-scan celeste vibrato, so a slow Leslie on the T did the trick.

It was definitely the best tonewheel spinet Hammond ever made, with the Leslie and all the percussion voices, built in reverb, etc.

Bill

---

I am NOT a PC programmer. I program on Mainframe computers!

Non omnes qui habemt citharam sunt citharoedi

radagast:

It was definitely the best tonewheel spinet Hammond ever made, with the Leslie and all the percussion voices, built in reverb, etc.

Bill

I can see all the devoted M-100 users out there cringing at that. But I can't say I don't agree, somewhat. Heck, my L doesn't even have scanner vibrato. Plus, the T being solid-state opens whole new doors for unique tone development. I'm all for it, because I grow tired of the same B3-122 sound all the time.
Get creative, for example, I plan on hooking up a Wah pedal to my L sometime soon. Why? Because I can.

---

Nathan Wilcox

An internal leslie is always better than no leslie at all, and IMNSHO better than even the most sophisticated scanner vibratos. (and the real TG chorus was better than the postwar imitation)

Lee 

---

If you can keep your head
when all about you are losing theirs
and blaming it on you
Its just possible you haven't grasped the situation.

Don't knock a T until you've tried one - you might be pleasantly surprised! The internal leslie is indeed, just fine, unless you've got a 122/145 etc, in which case you won't care!

Andy G

---

It's not what you play, it's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

I found one on youtube and that's why I asked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYhDOvxRiTM

Sounds lovely to me. I also noticed this model seems a bit lighter than tube spinets. Is this because it is solid state? What is the downside of solid state models (electronically)?  It's not a tube hammond but it sounds the way a hammond should sound (in my ears at least).  

---

First they came for the ABC consoles, then they came for the older consoles. When they finally got to the spinets, they were all gone.

hello.

The  T-series was great , in my opinion.    Back in the early 90's when I was taking organ lessons, my organ teacher had a T-223. I loved it.  I had a Hammond M-100 with a 145 leslie of my own at that time and even though the M-100 with a 145 Leslie gave me a close b-3 sound, it did n't have percussion sounds or reiteration or drums/cymbals. I once was part of a church a couple years ago that had T-500 series and those ar really nice too, they have rhythm units on them and some have the cassette recorder not to mention they are already wired up to take an external Leslie (as long as its the model that was intended for that organ!)   So the M-100 was limited on what it could do.  Now I no longer have the M-100 , but a Conn 550 theatrette with 351 Leslie.I no longer take organ lessons.  At the church that I go to currently, I play a Wurlitzer 4300 every sunday.  These days the T-series has very little value and can be gotten cheap or even for FREE.   Unfortunatly the SCANNER vibrato usually goes out or has problems as those organs age. But the tonewheel generators will run forever if you oil them once a year and play them often. I believe the T-500 series was the last of the spinet "TONEWHEELS"  . Then Hammond started making organs with "integrated curcuits"(LSI technology)I have been told its easier to fix the tube hammonds cause parts are harder to find for the solid state, cause the curcuit boards are no longer made , its outdated electronic technology. I dont know if that is really true or not. The worse thing you can do to an organ is NOT PLAY IT.  If you take care of it and PLAY IT , it will serve you well.  An organ sitting around , not being played, collecting dust will develop problems!

from

Anthony  , in hayward, CA

Anthony,

 You are so correct about an organ just sitting around collecting dust will surely develop all kinds of problems.  I bought a nice T211 that hadn't been used, even oiled since the owner bought it, and just couldn't learn as she thought she would.  Her maid had this organ shinning like it came off the showroom floor.  From the time, I got it home, until the day it left, this Hammond organ was a NIGHTMARE deluxe with all kinds of problems.  I had 3 service techs at various times to check it, but it never did as it should have done.  So, we all have our likes and dislikes, and opinions.  Yes, the Leslie was nice, but the percussion not much more than a poor excuse.  This organ even had a rhythm box attached to give it an update to compete with the T500.  This organ was never the Hammond my M100 was, and I had bought that one new.

I had a Conn once, a model 650 with three manuals.  I never did like it.  I also had a Wurlitzer 4300 which was a very nice organ. I am currently looking for another decent 4300 or 4100 now.  We all must realize that these older organs will have some problems since they do have some age on them for something electronic.  How do you like the Conn vs. the Wurlitzer 4300?   My email is jas200455@yahool.com or I would like your comments on here.  Thanks

James

Yes, Hammondlover, this one has the Hammond sound, and is much lighter because it has transistors in the electronic parts, and the cabinet is much lighter also rather dainty I would say.  The T500 seems to be the best of this series.  They are NOT as reliable as the old Hammond tube organs regardless of what model people prefer.

James

Your right, James, there is usually something wrong with most older organs.  Sometimes its so minor, its not worth calling out a tech. to fix it. I have seen Wurlitzer 4300 on e-bay, they are usually pretty cheap.  I have never played a Conn 650, but I have played the 651 and My parents have a 652 at there house.  651 and 652 are nice organs. Here are my thoughts on the Conn-vs.Wurlitzer:

PRO's of Wurlitzer:
     1.  Wurlitzer has a better speaker system.  2 speaker systems on most, the "stationary" and the SPECTRA -Tone.  The Spectra -Tone may be a LESLIE rip-off, but it sounds fabulous-- Especially in the Wurlitzer's that had a 2 speed spectra-tone  (My 4040 only had a 1 speed spectra).   The Tone is very deep and throbbing.  The sound is seperated just like in a real leslie (cross-over network) I  have only played Wurlitzer spinets, I have never played a full-console Wurli. So I dont know if the full-console did the same and of course the spinets im referring too are the ones made in the 60'/early 70's Im not  that familiar with the ones made after that.  I did get the chance to play a couple of newer ones , and they did not have that same good -quality organ sound that the olders ones had.
       2. Wurlitzer's were ahead technology wise..  Conn was still making "toasters" in the mid 60's and Wurlitzer's were already solid-state, transistorized and with stereo sound and rhythem units and "band boxes" (on some models) 
       3.  Some models had seperate amps.- one for each keyboard. plently of power.
       4. Nice cabinets, very well designed for the home! 
       5.  Nice selection of Vibrato variations  (fast/slow---Heavy/normal  --etc...)
Con's of Wurlitzer (no pun intended! LOL!):
       1.  Difficult to tune (in my opinion!)
       2.   Percussion sounds not very realistic sounding and tend to take volume away from other stops when they [percussions]are in use.
       3.   Stops are not color coded according to family of tones, on these older models. Also stops had to be "coupled" on many models to get the
             full range of tones., that limits veriation in sound.. The stops shared "couplers", so this even more limited your registration. Instead
             of having a Flute 2' and a diapason 2' seperate stop tabs , so you could have one and not the other, they shared a "coupler"..
       4.   One channel only.. Did not seperate the Tibias from the other families of tones like most other organs did. So when you turn on the
       SPECTRA-TONE, every thing ran through it.
Pro's of Conn:
       1.   Individual Oscillators for each tone.   Much better sound duplication.  This was true of Tube and solid-state models.
       2.   adjustable volume directly on amp.  (in tube models, not sure about solid-state)
       3.   better sounding stops.  Strings and Horns are very realistic. And Vox Human is cool.
       4.   Tones are seperated from Tibias. Only Tibias go through Leslie, 2 channels(some models  are 3 channels)
       5.   Most models had 3 speed Leslie.  Off, fast, slow. Really cool to hear the Leslie start up from completely stopped to FAST.  In the Wurli
             you had to change speaker systems with a push of a button.. Didn't sound the same.
       6.   Great Percussions
       7.  Great 'band boxes' and rhythm units.  Very realistic sounding.
       8.   prepare for external Leslies. Switches and controls are already in place. NO leslie kits-(enless you use a leslie that was NOT intended for the particualr model U have )
Con's of Conn (LOL!):
       1.   Leslie speaker system very shallow sounding (compared to the Wurlitzer spectra -tone)
       2.   Terrible tremolos for  the organ.   Most organs only had 2 settings..  The 1st is too shallow.  The 2nd one is ok.  The TREM accent is bad, it is too much TREM...  Sounds like the organ has the "shakes".  It sounds worse if you use the Fast Leslie with the full trem and the trem accent.  Ouch!.. did that once in a church service on a conn 651, needless to say, I got alot of strange looks from the congregation. LOL!
       3.    problems with the pedals--contact / spring   problems/issues.  true of spinets and console models I 've played.
       4.   the "toaster units" -Tube units get very hot after being on for many hours. (my 550 is tube, it has 40 tubes in it!)

*You will be happy with either one I believe.  Good Luck.

from Anthony, In hayward, CA