The Organ Forum

You are unbearably fussy Mr. Casteel. Have listened to the work of the composer Arvo Part? Much of his work is post 1940 (he was born in 35), I think you might enjoy some of his work, think along some of the same lines as Eben, or Erb. Here's a short choral piece Bogorditse Djevo

 

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Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control

The worship wars (traditional versus contemporary) are nothing new. I have seen articles dated from the 1960's, well before my time, about this. So we have an issue that has been going on for at least 50 years or so.

The reason for the decline in churches are multicausational and multifactorial. We live in a post-Christian society where there are many who are indifferent, never heard of, or are even hostile to the Message. To list all of the factors which are besieging the church today would take up a very long thread. Suffice it to say that anyone who gives a simplistic solution to a complex one such as, "If you change the music, they'll all come back," is living in a fantasy land. If the solution were that simple, this issue would have been solved a long time ago. As mentioned before, the worship wars have been around for quite some time. But it is easier to change the music for example, as this takes less mental and spiritual effort then to really sit down and wrestle with the real issues. It's easier to toss out hymnals and pipe organs than it is to really tackle the things which are really responsible for the problem. Furthermore, the Music Director/Organist as well as the Minister/Priest are easy to isolate in a church, and I have seen such people be wrongly targeted as the scapegoat for a church's ills. Again, easier to target these individuals than look within themselves, the world around them, and wrestle with the real issues.

When dealing with the law of scarcity, the more scarce a valuable resource becomes, the more people want it and will do almost anything to get it. Churches losing membership see the scarcity in front of them and they become desperate to do something about it because as time marches on, the membership continues to decline. When people become desperate, they often do counterproductive things. With an abscence of true leadership on what to do about it, they will walk into a desert, and instead of look for water, eat the sand. People are so hungry for leadership, for hope, look at the recent Presidential election. People are so hungry for meaning and purpose in their lives, look at all the addictions, materialism, and the record statistics on the amount of anti-depressants being prescribed. Unfortunately, this too will not solve the problem. Materialism begets materialism and soon one will say, "Is this all that there is?" Addiction begets more addiction, they spiral out of control wanting to escape the pain of reality, until the person loses their life. Anti-depressants will only get one so far because a pill cannot solve all of your problems, and the side effects (loss/increased appetite, insomnia, low sex drive, risk for suicide, etc.) are often worse than the problem which lead you to the take the pill in the first place. President Elect Obama brings much hope and vision to the world, but again, one should be careful not to put ANY human being on a pedestal. Only Jesus Christ can make you and this broken world whole again. But if someone rejects the Redemmer and His love, then they will look for what they need elsewhere. They will look for a substitue, even though it is impossible to substitute God.  

 Okay, I'm looking at this over again and it looks like a quasi-sermon so I'll stop now. And anyone out there reading this, no you may not use this for a sermon or a book you are writing, or whatever else!!!!  

 

 

Thanks for your thoughtful message.  One thing caught my attention particularly:

ReedGuy:

When dealing with the law of scarcity, the more scarce a valuable resource becomes, the more people want it and will do almost anything to get it. Churches losing membership see the scarcity in front of them and they become desperate to do something about it because as time marches on, the membership continues to decline.

You mention scarcity in relation to dwindling membership, however I also would argue that pipe organs and fine organists are becoming even more scarce than those vanishing parishioners!  Yet it seems not too many people are lamenting the loss of the organ and its players. 

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Soubasse32

SB, the same thought occurred to me.

Austin, you are correct and I was too absolute in my statements.  For one thing, there are many modern composers who write music in an older style, and, of course, I have no problem with their music.  I will listen to the link you provided with open ears.  Although I usually don't admit it, there were a few singers in my teen years that I enjoyed a little--the Everly Brothers come to mind--and I've even learned recently to like a few upbeat C&W singers (like Alan Jackson).  (I have relatives who would be absolutely struck dumb if they learned of that!  It is the equivalent of 7734 being frozen over.)

Also, folks, please don't get the idea that I hate all contemporary music--hate is a very strong emotion and I reserve it for very rare occasions.  I dislike a lot of it and am mostly just unmoved by the rest--it does not relate to me.  Some of it does engender visceral emotion, but I don't think religious music should do that, frankly.  (I know that there are those who disagree with me, but if I am to be emotional I'd rather it were the words that did it, not the pulse-pounding music.)

That is why we have different forms of worship--so each worshipper can find the way that is meaningful for him/her and that causes a stronger relationship to God.  Most contemporary music just does not do that for me.

David

[quote user "ReedGuy"]

...Only Jesus Christ...

Only Jesus Christ can make you and this broken world whole again.

Isn't that a bit fatalistic? I mean it feels like saying "I can't do anything about it except asking someone else do put it all right. So why should I care?". I tought He teached us how to do it, but it is up to us to actually do it.

Back to the issue of music. All good and well, but what about silence? I feel this is forgotten in church service and it has a larger power than music.

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Expert in non-working solutions

Havoc:

Back to the issue of music. All good and well, but what about silence? I feel this is forgotten in church service and it has a larger power than music.

Ah, the power of Yin and Yang, black and white, sound and silence.  We need both to balance.  I've been in services that had a moment of silence just after the sermon, before the hymn of the day.  Works like lemon ice after the main course, allowing you to settle a bit before moving ahead.  I've tried to get that started in my congregation, but our pastor is a type A personality.  Likes it all go, go, go.  Fortunately, we have services that he doesn't lead that we can expand and relax a bit in. I can also control the flow of services by pausing a bit longer after the readings.  Silence is intimidating since it requires one to think for one's self without external stimuli.  That can unleash emotions and connections covered up in the fray of today's world.  Excellent though, Havoc.

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Holtkamp/Parkey pipe organ
Galanti Praeludium home instrument

Soubasse, you are right. There is a scarcity of organists but nothing seems to be being done about it.

Havoc, your point is well taken. I should have been more specific. Only by following in the ways of Jesus Christ, ways which He has taught us, can we be made whole, but it is up to us (free will) to choose to do that.

The silence comment is a good one. I feel that because we are saturated by so much media, and blackberries, bluethooths, cellular phones, rushing here rushing there, reacting to this and that, that some people don't know how to be quiet. In fact, some I would argue would be actually uncomfortable with quiet. But we need to find the quiet center, so to speak. This is also another reason why meditiation is so valuable as practiced both by Christian and Buddhist monks, for example.

You are all correct in your observations that silence makes a lot of people uncomfortable. Why do you think that is? I always assumed that people are used to hearing or seeing something all the time, even at church, so that silence indicates that something is wrong. I know that when I'm lecturing to grad students, I can get instant attention if I simply pause for a while. Maybe they think the old guy is having a stroke or something? I prefer a nearly empty church (or chapel) with organ playing softly to augment meditation and prayer. Should have been a monk, maybe. Contemporary music is like a migraine for me. At least the migraine will go away with time.

 

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BOZ

There is a standing decree at my church that there be no silence - yours truly has the duty of filling those gaps with musical interludes and transitions.  I've always felt a bit uncomfortable about having to do that, but the good thing is it helps me keep my improvisational skills sharp. 

By the way, that 'decree' is partly because applause during the service is discouraged; it is also partly due to the fact that the early service is broadcast and the radio folks hate 'dead air'.

ReedGuy:

bluethooths,

I suppose that would be the correct term; I've never heard of blueteeth! 

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Soubasse32

Having worked in broadcast for a while, "dead" air is certainly an excuse to have continuous sound.  I'm reminded of someone (not sure who) that was asked by their minister to play traveling music to cover some or other action in the service.  The organist replied  something like " why don't you just mumble a while?"  

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Holtkamp/Parkey pipe organ
Galanti Praeludium home instrument

Much more than 'the organist' - it was Herbert Howells. 

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Soubasse32

Not sure how this double post happened - I'm sure I only pressed the button once! 

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Soubasse32

soubasse32:

Much more than 'the organist' - it was Herbert Howells. 

Glad to be able to finally ascribe a name to that quote!  I love his compositions.

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Holtkamp/Parkey pipe organ
Galanti Praeludium home instrument

Boz, several times I've been asked to play something very quietly during the prayers or times of meditation at the service. It works very well. I usually improvise on a hymn such as Fairest Lord Jesus for example, or Plainchant, and the clestes, flutes, and even the chimes from the gallery are most helpful!

Soubasse, I, too, get requests for music when things go quiet. You are right, having to play something in a moment's notice does help your improvisational skills immensely. Any good books out there on French improvisation? I'm still working on that. I can improvise Baroque style at the drop of a hat.

Ludwig tone, I love that quote! Howells has lovely stuff too!