The Organ Forum

Shock! Horror! I voted for a digital.

Look I'm a young person born into the digital age - most of you entered into the digital age whereas I was born into it. So naturally anything electronic catches my interest. I was taught on a electronic organ, I have played on electronics in my short career (compared to some of you) and I play electronic instruments at other local Churches.

I have played a few pipe organs but I haven't been particularly blown away or "wowed". Perhaps I need to have a go on a really good pipe instrument to really understand what you guys are talking about.

But the vast majority of my experience has been with electronic organs. I enjoy playing and I get a lot of out them. Therefore I naturally have to vote for electronic.

nullogik:

Look I'm a young person born into the digital age - most of you entered into the digital age whereas I was born into it. So naturally anything electronic catches my interest.

I wonder if those born into the age of fully lifelike cyborg replicas will prefer a 'perfect' electronic equivalent of a human being over a date with the real thing with all the accompanying baggage, imperfections, and personality disorders :)

soubasse32:

I cometimes get tired of having to get to church early to see if all of the clarinet pipes will sound for the offertory piece, not knowing if a certain swell note will play this week, or fuming over the fact that the church simply cannot afford to bring the organ up to the place where it would be a delight to play.

Ah, but that is simply the nature of the beast.    Like all other pipe organists going back to the time of Charlemagne I am accustomed to meeting the pipe organ on its own terms.  A complex instrument such as a pipe organ seems to have its own personality, needs, and whims.  It reacts to its environment just as any other finely-crafted acoustical instrument does.

I'd agree that some pipe organs may be too far gone, but I enjoy the challenge of adapting to the circumstances at hand...

Excellent point(s), SB32!

Our 72 rank organ at church is well-maintained, but if one looks hard enough, one can always find some little thing, especially in a relatively large instrument.  On the other hand, this makes a good case for larger organs because it gives the organist more options should something malfunction.

I do recall many years ago, when I did such things for a sort-of living, playing a wedding where the bride's processional was to be Wachet Auf ... rather than the usual 'here come's the bride' thing (thankfully!).   Unfamiliar church, organ I'd never touched before.  I was allowed 30 minutes before the sanctuary doors opened to feel out that instrument (fortunately access to the console wasn't death defying).  There wasn't a single manual reed playable -- they each had some needed note grossly out of tune, or just missing.  Reeds are the worst!.  Fortunately there was a sesquilter on the swell, and I was able to piece something usable together in the last remaining minutes.  The bride, lovely young thing, said she loved the music -- but given the nature of "bridehood" probably didn't hear a single note ... :)

It's much like the joys of being a submariner -- you've got the Deck, it's been weeks on patrol suffering utter boredom,  being driven crazy because the ever-present 400Hz whine is ever so slightly out of tune.  And then you're suddenly faced with about 2 minutes of laundry-generating, absolute terror when you realize the Russian sub you're tailing at 1500 yards has suddenly done what is known in the trade as a 'Crazy Ivan' (a 180 degree turn at high speed  - it's not called "CRAZY" for nothing), you've lost the fire control solution (have no idea whether you're about to be hit or where to shoot) --- and the Captain appears in the control room ... :)

laundry-generating, absolute terror

LOL!!

MenchenStimme:

laundry-generating, absolute terror

LOL!!

Trust me, the wardroom stewards (nor I) didn't, at the time, find this as humorous as I can, looking back 35+ years later.  It often was a die, kill, or have a laundry-problem world in the days of  the Cold War.  I'd take a laundry issue any day compared to ANY of the alternatives :)

Sometimes I joke thus:  "I was so upset, I almost ruined the organ bench!"  And people look at me as though they have no clue.  Church is no place to explain such a comment and it is only funny if it hits you spontaneously.  I hope that they don't actually understand it and withhold showing amusement because they think I am too crude.

Oh well, whatever . . .

Grant_Youngman:

I wonder if those born into the age of fully lifelike cyborg replicas will prefer a 'perfect' electronic equivalent of a human being over a date with the real thing with all the accompanying baggage, imperfections, and personality disorders :)

I think what you've said will definitely come true - assuming the technology will be in place to make cyborgs as near 100% lifelike as possible.

Check out the movie "Cherry 2000".

David

soubasse32:

I sometimes get tired of having to get to church early to see if all of the clarinet pipes will sound for the offertory piece, not knowing if a certain swell note will play this week, or fuming over the fact that the church simply cannot afford to bring the organ up to the place where it would be a delight to play.

Ah, but that is simply the nature of the beast.    Like all other pipe organists going back to the time of Charlemagne I am accustomed to meeting the pipe organ on its own terms.  A complex instrument such as a pipe organ seems to have its own personality, needs, and whims.  It reacts to its environment just as any other finely-crafted acoustical instrument does.

I'd agree that some pipe organs may be too far gone, but I enjoy the challenge of adapting to the circumstances at hand...

I'm sure that I have ruffled some feathers with my comments about prefering a good digital computer organ over a mediocre pipe organ, but I stand by them. I have spent the last year redoing our church organ within severe budget restraints. The diapason were dull and heavy, there were no decent celestes, the Swell Cornet was too soft to use with anything but the Aeoline, which itself was good for nothing. Most of the Great was enclosed within the Choir chamber. We had five ranks of Dulciana pipes, in a forty rank organ. In that time, I have learned to revoice pipes, swap pipes, make pipes sound (that didn't!), and replace pipes with better pipes. The Great is now out in the open. We now have what is a fairly respectable pipe organ, as opposed to what we had a year ago, and hopefully the local organists will no longer refer to it as "the church theatre organ."

I still would rather have a good Rodgers digital, or, best of all, a nice Phoenix. It would stay in tune, there would be no air leaks or blower noise, the swell pedals would work right, and it probably would be far more flexible. I am committed to working with what we have, as I have always done, but I have no illusions about this organ. It is a workhorse, there is nothing special about it, and I don't consider myself privileged just because I play a pipe organ.

Note-I posted this and realized there were 3 pages of posts.  This post was created from the 1st page.

Sorry------------

OK - I will be an 'odd-ball' and state I prefer Digital over Pipe.  Primarily it is due to space and cost.

The Digital that I would love to have, is one that I've had the pleasure of playing.  It has the 'touch' or

'delay' from keystroke to sound just like a pipe organ.  It is the basic organ by Walker, the 3/35.

 At $80k installed versus $200k for a 3/12 or 3/18 is a big difference.  Twice to 3 times the voices

for 1/2 the cost.  However, my Conn 653 with Leslie 720/540 stack and 6 pipe speakers will have

to tide me over "until my ship comes in".  I might also consider the 3 manual WERSI.  I have never

played a WERSI, but have heard it, and it will blow rings around almost any other organ out there,

especially for the Jazz community.  In case you didn't know, the Tower Ballroom in Blackpool, UK

has a 3 manual WERSI as well as the Wurlitzer Theater Pipe organ.

Al 

The pipe organ that Matt and I got to play around with this week almost made a believer out of me. It is definitely more fun and maybe even less stressful to work on pipes than on digitals. And those 100 year old pipes still stir the air better than the best modern speaker organ.

But I have heard some glorious digitals -- rarely, but now and then, here and there. What's still missing in 90% of digital installations is adequate audio power, plentiful speakers, 360 degree sound dispersion, lively acoustics, and artistic finishing. When those elements are all present, which is rare, a digital (or good analog even) is a wonderful music machine too.

If we were all as ambitious and creative as my cousin Tay (with his "house" organ) and the forum member who is building a unique organ by connecting together 11 separate electronic consoles -- well, we'd come up with something good to play wherever we are! Pipes, reeds, or whatever we could lay our hands on.

John

Down in Southern Maryland, approsimately 60 miles south-southeast of Washington DC, in a little village called Chaptico, is an Episcopal church with a Rodgers three manual organ in the balcony. The organ is maybe ten years old, and replaced a highly unified pipe organ. When I lived in the DC area, I used to ride down there and have a few minutes on the organ (the church is kept unlocked). That installation showed me that a good digital installation could make one happy to play it. The Phoenix installation in Chenango Bridge, NY, is another installation that is nice to play, and that satisfies one's ear.

I have played good pipe organs, and I have heard good ones. I have also heard and played some bad ones. Same with digital organs. I am happy with either one. But if I had to choose between a good digital and a poor pipe organ, I would not hesitate to choose the digital.