The Organ Forum

soubasse32:

Further research (on a different German website) shows the Quarte as being an eleventh, eighteenth, or a twenty-fifth (also called Undezime).  According to this website, the 1 5/11' pitch is part of the 8' series (the Encyclopedia of Organ Stops lists it as being part of the 16' series, which I think is correct).

One thing that confused me on the Klais website - apparently they list their Quarte out of order in the Auckland and Beijing specifications.  At Auckland it is Flautino 2', Quarte 1 5/11', Terz 1 3/5'.  The correct order should be Flautino 2', Terz 1 3/5', Quarte 1 5/11'.  When the stop appears in correct order (between the Terz and the Quinte) then it makes more sense:

• Fifteenth 2'
• Terz 1 3/5'  (third)
• Quarte 1 5/11'   (fourth)
• Quinte 1 1/3'   (fifth)

I believe the easiest way to determine what footage series a stop belongs to is to convert the footage value to an improper fraction, in which case the numerator denotes the series and the denominator denotes the harmonic.  In this case, 1 5/11 becomes 16/11, and it represents the 11th harmonic of the 16' series.  In the same way, a 2 2/3' stop becomes 8/3 and is the third harmonic of the 8' series.  Of course, the improper fraction needs to be reduced to lowest terms (no common factor in both numerator and denominator), but this is normally not a problem.

SB, I also noticed that the Stop List had the Quarte out of order (normal order being larger to smaller).  Your observation about the naming corresponding to the proper ordering is most interesting and I think has wonderful logic to it.

David

I am a curious person (in both senses of the word) and I just did some more calculations.  Besides the 1 5/11' footage, stops of 1 11/21' and 1 9/23' could equally fill that Quarte position (and they'd be part of the 32' series).  This can be seen by converting all the footages to their equivalents in the 32' series (which for some is not the principal series):

2' = 32/16' (sixteenth harmonic of 32')

1 3/5' = 32/20' (twentieth harmonic of 32')

1 11/21' = 32/21' (twenty-first harmonic of 32')

1 5/11' = 32/22'  (twenty-second harmonic of 32')

1 9/23' = 32/23' (twenty-third harmonic of 32')

1 1/3' = 32/24' (twenty-fourth harmonic of 32')

It is readily seen that any of the 3 footages between 1 3/5' and 1 1/3' could qualify as Quarte (by being between the Terz and Quinte).  How useful this observation is is certainly subject to question.  (What can I say--that's the way my mind works.)

David

Thank you, David - this is fascinating!

You mentioned:   "How useful this observation is is certainly subject to question."

I would add:   How useful this Quarte stop is is certainly subject to question.

How would a Quarte stop normally be used?

 

Is there a traditional way of using it? By the reactions given in this thread it seems quite rare. 

I don't know, but I'm no expert.  I can calculate the frequency comparisons, however.  Using the even-tempered frequency of 32.68828 Hz for the low C of the 16' register, the 11th harmonic is a frequency of 359.51173 Hz, which is almost exactly halfway between the F and F# that are 3 1/2 octaves higher.  I believe that this would create a dissonance and might even be unpleasant.  On the other hand, it could just add to the total harmonic structure of the tone and make it a little stringier.

I made a wild guess and found this entry in the on-line Encyclopedia of Organ Stops:

Eleventh English

A very rare mutation stop that speaks approximately an F when played from the C key, one octave and a fourth above. It is found at 2 10/11' pitch in the manuals, where it is part of the 32' harmonic series. In the pedal it is found at 5 9/11' pitch, and is part of the 64' harmonic series.

This stop is listed only by Irwin, who incorrectly claims that it is “not a natural harmonic of any series”, and goes on to say: “It gives a dissonant effect and a close-toned brilliance to any loud Reeds or a flue combination, and also makes some clang-tone which may be brass-like in effect.”

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Note that the Quarte in question plays an octave above the 2 10/11' listed above, so one would expect it to affect the 16' series much the same as the ones listed affect their parent series.

David

cosmicpanda:

How would a Quarte stop normally be used?

Is there a traditional way of using it? By the reactions given in this thread it seems quite rare.

I am fairly certain that there are no compositions that specifically call for it (or there shouldn't be, seeing as it is one of the rarest stops).

I wouldn't hesitate to use it however, whenever I want to add a little color to the tone.  It is sort of like adding a pinch of cloves to a sauce - a little goes along way - but you'll know it when you taste (or hear) it! 

The instrument at my church has a None, which is somewhat less rare (but is still a rarity).  I use it very infrequently.

Some of the more dissonant mutations (sevenths, ninths, elevenths) impart an increasingly reedy quality to the tone of foundation stops when you use them collectively.  For this reason, they are often described as a "binding agent" between the flues and reed stops.

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Soubasse32

An interesting little mystery - I talked to the Auckland City organist today and he didn't think that a Quarte stop was included on this organ, and had the same reaction to many of you - that there is no such thing as a Quarte stop.

 

Perhaps the stoplist I found on Klais' site is a bit wrong. 

 

cosmicpanda:

An interesting little mystery - I talked to the Auckland City organist today and he didn't think that a Quarte stop was included on this organ, and had the same reaction to many of you - that there is no such thing as a Quarte stop.

Oh but I didn't say there is no such thing as a Quarte stop!    There is, and they come in several varieties (none of which has a mutation of an eleventh).  Follow this link for more info.

Hmm... I'm surprised the municipal organist would say that... 

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Soubasse32

Oh, no, I have misquoted him slightly.

I told him the pitch first - 1-5/11' - and then told him that it was called a Quarte, and he said that he didn't think that such a stop was to go on the Auckland organ, and also that he didn't know of any stops at that pitch called a Quarte.

It may be interesting to you to note that the stoplist has been updated. There's only one Choir, there's a few interesting stops based on Maori instruments that Klais seem to have invented, and definitely no Quarte. 

 

http://www.orgelbau-klais.com/m.php?tx=91 

Interesting spec.

I wish the Choir was 'beefed up' a bit - with a bigger mixture (for baroque music) and a Trumpet (for French repertoire)...

Aside from the lone 8' Principal there are six narrow-scale or tapered stops in the Choir, plus three color reeds - all topped by a 2' Principal and tiny three-rank mixture.  Not to my taste. 

I wonder if the Maori stops will be specially created, or if they will just put an unusual name to a 'regular' stop.

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Soubasse32