The Organ Forum

Darrell,

Too bad the pedalboard is missing. Wish I had an organ of that series to take one from. The same pedalboard was used on a number of models as I recall. The 636 used the same pedalboard, and the 626 I think. Maybe even the 635, 625, 632. Robert Spoon at MusicElectronics is the authority on all things Baldwin and can tell you for sure. He might even have a spare pedalboard to sell you.

There are a lot of organs out there from that time period, and someone may have a pedalboard to sell or give you. Worst case -- you could get any kind of an AGO pedalboard and wire it up according to the schematic in the Baldwin service manual. Shouldn't be too hard for you if you have some technical and mechanical skills. But maybe you'll find a pedalboard.

Your audio setup should work just fine. Just bring the 5 or 6 channels out of the terminal strip connections into shielded cables and run into the mixer. Mix and match the channels to your satisfaction!  Allen HC-12 speakers are excellent units, used throughout the 1980's on premium Allen organs. The woofer is a 15" foam surround, so you may find foam rot if the driver has not been replaced already. The cabinet is full-range and can even handle 32' pedal stops. Should sound pleasant in a home setting.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

John

Pictures are located in my gallery - bamaorganist

I found a Organ Crafters amp on ebay that came out of a working Baldwin.  I'm going to bid on it since it looks like it was designed for Baldwin.  The input markings for low/pass, M1-M4 etc on the amp match those on the Main and Antiphonal outputs in the back of the organ.  This should make it alot easier to install and setup if I win the bidding.

Darrell,

GO for that amp on ebay! That is perfect for your Baldwin and will make your setup so much easier and better. As you know, a new amp built especially for Baldwin would cost you many hundreds of dollars, so keep your bid high as you can. You don't want to lose that one.

For speakers, you only need to have some small but high quality units for the M1 - M4 channels, as they carry little audio below 200 Hz (there is an internal active crossover in the organ console itself). I have used inexpensive Radio Shack speakers for these channels in some such installations. They have a wedge-shaped PA speaker with an 8" or 10" speaker plus a horn tweeter for about $50. Something like that would be perfectly adequate for each M channel.

For the LP channel you need to use a hefty speaker, preferably a 15" or dual-15" system with foam or rubber surrounds to adequately produce the 32' stop.

I see that your 645 has the 32' stop. Looking at the service manual I see no mention of a separate audio channel for that stop, so it appears that all you need is the standard 5-channel amp and speaker setup. I guess it was on the 640 that the 32' stop had its own channel. My Baldwin D422 (which was the series that superseded the 645 and its siblings) uses a separate channel for the 32' stop, but I have it mixed in with the other channels for now.

Best of luck. Keep on posting about your project.

John

Hi All.

I am new to this forum.... I came across it on google when I was looking for info. on a Baldwin 645C F68D ser# 01235... I sent a private email to J. Bird with several questions which he answered promptly... the church where it is located is deciding if they are going to sell it after I approached them a few weeks ago... it hasn't been used in about 5 years... my question to all is.... where do you draw the line on the dollar amount on repairs that may be needed to be done.... The church board will let me know about the end of Sept of their decesion... I am interested in this organ..... it has an amp EA5 and a digital reverb CGR6.

I am not trying to take over this tread.... but thought that I would add my question here instead of starting a new one on the same model organ.

Harold,

Obviously you wouldn't want to put more money into a 645 than it's worth, but the question is -- how much is it worth?

For comparison, the absolute cheapest new 3-manual AGO organ you could buy is surely $30,000 -- and that is Cheap with a capital C -- made for the low-end market. But, even that cheapest new organ would be fully digital and would have MIDI and perhaps a sequencer or other features that were not available back in the 80's when the 645 was on the market. However, the 645 was, at the time, pretty much a premium deluxe model, with a very nice console, excellent keyboards, a sturdy pedalboard, and a nice audio system -- so comparison to a super-cheap new organ might not be quite fair.

Maybe a better comparison would be with a comparable used organ. I occasionally sell a used organ to a church when one falls into my hands. Not too long ago I sold a nice used Rodgers from the 80's (though it was a 2-manual, not 3) to a church for $5500 -- and that price included delivery, a set of new speakers, complete installation and setup, voicing and tuning on site, and a year's warranty. Of course I'm not a dealer, and a dealer might have gotten more for that organ with the same set of extras, so you might say is was worth $7500.

I'd guess a dealer might try to get $7500 for a very clean 645, delivered and installed, with some kind of brief limited warranty. So you won't be going terribly wrong if you sink a few thousand dollars into it, but obviously you're not getting the extras and services that you'd get if you bought it from a dealer. You'll be on your own as far as moving it, setting it up, and making any repairs that may be needed, and those items could mount up quickly.

OTOH -- I see a lot of perfectly decent organs not over 20 or 25 years old that are free for the taking. And I tend to tell churches that are trying to get rid of one that they'll probably wind up giving it away just to get it removed. So, you don't necessarily have to pay much for the organ itself. Where you wind up spending your money is in getting it moved and then fixing it up.

Hope that helps a little. Maybe someone else will offer more information.

John

HI John

Thank you once again for your quick response... I guess I should have formed the question in this way...if I get the organ for a reasonable amount...and there is a possibility of me getting it free.... I can put about $1200.00 in repairs. So cost of batteries...sauldering if it needs..

Lamps and everything is working... except for what I pointed out in my email to you ( each preset and toe piston lit every stop up when pressed.... and principal sounded an octave aboce midle C )..... so whatever the cause of these few things would it exceed 1200.00 to 1500.00 dollars...

thanks again

Harold,

Not a problem on using this thread - it's the same model organ I might learn a few more things in the process.  I was very fortunate to get my 645 for free.  It was missing a few things and I'm in the process of finding them and getting the organ playing again.  I've decided to spend money on one project at a time to get the organ back into playing condition.  This way I’m not overwhelmed by a large dollar figure for everything at one time.  I've seen other 3-manual organs from the same era go for $5500 to $6500 on eBay.  When I was organist at a church in Baltimore in the 90’s, our pipe organ died and we could not afford the repairs.  We purchased a used 2-manual Rodgers from that era and the dealer charged us $6500

Good luck with your instrument.  By the way - moving it is not difficult.  Two of us tipped the 645 on one end onto a heavy-duty furniture dolly - rolled it out of the church and then tipped it into the back of a U-Haul trailer without any problems.  Getting into the house was not hard either.  There are two steps - we tipped it out of the trailer onto its end on the dolly.  Rolled it to the front porch step - tipped it onto the porch and then back onto another dolly then rolled it into the house.  Only ended up lifting one end of it.  It fit nicely through a regular sized door frame - I only had to remove the door from the hinges.

Good luck.

Well I'm bummed.  I thought I would get to hear the organ today.  The Organ Crafters Amp arrived and I hooked it up - it doesn't seem to be working.  I connected it to the organ and the amp to speakers and got nothing.  There is an electrical plug on the far end of the amp, so  to test the electrical flow through the map, I plugged the organ into it and the amp into the outlet and there is no electrical flow.  The organ does not turn on when plugged into the amp. 

I took the top off the amp to see if anything looked loose or blown, but I don't see anything.  There are 5 fuses on boards inside the amp and a fuse on the exterior of the amp.  All of them seem to be okay - they dont look blown.

Any suggestions?

Darrell and Harold (replies to both of you):

Harold, your figure of $1200 - $1500 for repairs sounds reasonable. You'll need to find a tech who knows and understands these organs. Otherwise he'll spin his wheels for hours. It isn't that complicated, but a guy who is only used to working on Hammond or even Rodgers or Allen and not familiar with this type of Baldwin may be lost. A sharp tech can use the troubleshooting procedures spelled out in the manual to find the exact problems. You may just need to let the batteries come up to full charge  and then you may have one audio channel not working, which would explain the mostly-missing great principal stop.

Darrell, if the AC does not get passed through the amp to the aux AC receptacle, I'd look for a line fuse. Could be inside a somewhat hidden fuse holder in the socket that the power cord plugs into. Or it could be in a screw-off fuse holder on the back of the unit. If you trace the AC wiring from the input to the output  you should find the problem and that may well fix the whole thing.

You need to be certain that the organ is sending +5 volts to the amp to turn it on. Or you can hook up a 6 volt battery or some other voltage source between 5 and 10 volts to the +5 and ground terminals on the amp to force it to turn on. (of couse it won't turn on if it's getting no AC power.)

Wish it weren't so far to Alabama. I'd love to see this organ and help you fix it. Too many to fix right here in Arkansas, though!  There are some organ techs in Alabama who are in the MITA organization. If you don't have someone in mind, let me know and I'll do a search for you.

John

Hi John

thank you for that information... I should know from the church board if they are going to sell it by the end of Sept. We have just 2 organ tecs here in the toronto area.. I will find out if one or both of them are familiar with the Baldwin 645C...If they don't I guess I will have to call on my long lost American cousin ( J. Bird ) do you know him... Thank you once again... Will keep you posted...

GOOD luck with your Baldwin 645C Darrell.

I recommend you actually test all the fuses--it is not uncommon for blown fuses to not look as if they are.

David

Thanks John & David,

I'll pull each of the fuses out one at a time and test them - after I get a fuse tester.  You guys are wonderful.  I'm so glad I found this forum.

 Darrell

WOW!  This Baldwin 645 sounds great for a 1980's analog organ!  I replaced the fuses in the amp and got the organ working tonight through two old speakers only.  I can't wait to order a full set of speakers - one for each channel - to get the full effect.

John, David, et al - Thank you for your help during the past few weeks.  Your guidance and assistance has been invaluable.  I’m sure as I get this organ back up to full working capacity, I’ll be using this forum to resolve problems that others have already encountered.  Its’ good to know that if I run into anything that I can’t resolve with the technical manual that you all are here to share your knowledge and experience.

Blessings,

Darrell

Hi All

Thank you all for your replies.... Just to update you on the Baldwin 645C that I had asked some questions about... the church committee has decided to keep the organ and are in the process of contacting a tech to have it brought up to snuff... I'm glad that I asked if it was for sale ...because it got them aroused and now another Baldwin 645C will be put back into service... even though I would love to have obtained it... oh well such is providence... and I except it.