The Organ Forum

I am blessed to have never heard any of those, PrayerBookAnglican; but I sure that to know them is to loathe them.

Actually, these songs bring back fond memories of my Grandpa singing the bass part in church on Sunday night.  I was raised Southern Baptist, albit large city church near a seminary, so we actually had decent music even with the evangelical songs of the early 20th century. However, I'm glad we don't sing them much in my congregation.  Only during "camp meeting services" usually in the middle of summer, just for fun. I'm only thinking melodies here, not texts.  Any 'I, I, I or me, my, me' texts are certainly old school, as our focus now is back on corporate worship and not on a personal back patting session.

Now that I'm in an ELCA congregation, the first tune that popped into my head and always causes my eyes to roll heavenward whenever I see it in the up coming services list is "In Babilone".  The melody just rolls around too much for me, or perhaps we sing it too often. Then there lots of old German tunes mostly unsingable for todays congregations that might be in that catagory.  Wonder how much of the newer "world songs" and "contemporary" melodies will cause moaning 50 years from now !?!

However, I always try to remember one persons poison is anothers passion.

The Lutheran church body I've called home for more than half a century now changed hymnals a couple of decades ago; the replacement brought into my worship life a number of completely unfamiliar (to me) hymns.  Several I've gratefully adopted as uplifting additions.  On the other hand: On Eagles' Wings has grown quite tedious for me.  Has it had that effect on anyone else in this forum?

DR 

Yes indeed; makes me want to put on a sturdy hat and break out the shampoo!  (Of course, real poo is worse than sham poo.)

MenchenStimme:

 On the other hand: On Eagles' Wings has grown quite tedious for me.  Has it had that effect on anyone else in this forum?

Yes indeed; makes me want to put on a sturdy hat and break out the shampoo!  (Of course, real poo is worse than sham poo.)

   

 

David

We don't do "hymns" too much our RC church unfortunately.  I generally prefer the old hymn tunes to the badly-written, metrically irregular "songs" we do more of (some of which make me cringe - Center of My Life is the worst offender there).  But as far as hymns go, On Jordan's Bank is one of my least favorites.  The 88.88 sounds very "boxy" and something about the "announces that the Lord is nigh" line just sounds "wrong" musically to me, somewhere near the word "that"; can't quite put my finger on it.

I have discovered that some of the old hymn tunes seem very similar in "feel" to each other, at least to my ear  (i.e. Crown Him With Many Crowns and Rejoice the Lord is King for example) but I guess that's another topic...in any case some of the newer songs are even worse in that respect.

-jim

Hi JimmyWilliams:

Center of My Life makes me cringe and worse.  I consider On Eagles Wings a classic by comparison.  Crown Him with Many Crowns and Rejoice the Lord is King are two of my favorites.

(David:  The shampoo is in case the hat proves not sturdy enough.)

"On Jordan's Bank" puts a smile on my face, from a chance quip I heard years ago: "It's not: 'On Jordan's bank the Baptist's cry'; it's 'On Jordan's bank the Lutherans cry.'"

DR 

soubasse32:

nullogik:

I don't hate this hymn because of how its written, but because it gets sung so much it begins to wear a bit thin...and that is Amazing Grace. . . .

My church sings this once per month - my solution is to find an alternate harmonization for the last verse.  An interesting free accompaniment can inject new life into something all too familiar.

When I get bored of Amazing Grace, I use an augmented chord (raise the 5th) on the first beat of the second full measure (the word is, grace).  The same augmented chord doesn't work in the 2nd half of the hymn because the 5th of the chord is the melody note.

I also use several relative minors during the hymn to help spice it up.  Ruins the congregation's need to sing in parts, but sounds much better.  Sometimes I save the relative minors for the last verse where I have raised it ½step anyway--I know, cliché, but effective if you're trying to renew interest for the 999999th time.

The history of John Newton's life is quite interesting too!  I do wish the movie Amazing Grace had emphasized the life and conversion of Mr. Newton more.  He was a regular Jekyl and Hyde.

Dana Rabenberg:

"On Jordan's Bank" puts a smile on my face, from a chance quip I heard years ago: "It's not: 'On Jordan's bank the Baptist's cry'; it's 'On Jordan's bank the Lutherans cry.'"

Sounds like a sprinkle vs. dunk discussion coming on!

Dana Rabenberg:

...On the other hand: On Eagles' Wings has grown quite tedious for me.  Has it had that effect on anyone else in this forum?

Another from the Glory and Praise series would be, Here I Am, Lord.  The first few times I heard it, I was moved, but recently I'm just mortified.

PrayerBookAnglican:

Here are a few of my "most despised" hymns (words and tunes both): "In My Heart There Rings A Melody" - Heart Melody; "Since Jesus Came Into My Heart" - McDaniel; "I Will Sing The Wondrous Story" - Wondrous Story; "I Will Sing Of My Redeemer" - My Redeemer; Love Lifted Me" - Safety; "Heaven Came Down" - Heaven Came Down; "...any other pietistic protestant drivel..." insert tiring tune here; Anything Gaither or if Tom Fettke touched it.

I thought we were discussing hymns, not gospel songs?  The difference being that a gospel song usually has 3 verses/stanzas and a chorus, whereas a hymn is (for lack of a better way of phrasing it) through-composed.  Are gospel songs fair game in this discussion?  If so, I could write a book!  Along those lines, please do not leave out Don Wyrtzen and John Peterson--though they had better compositional style (arguably).

My 2-cents.

Michael

Michael writes: "Another from the Glory and Praise series would be, Here I Am, Lord. The first few times I heard it, I was moved, but recently I'm just mortified."

Here I am Lord .... Is it I Lord ... who was bringing up three very lovely girls...  

PrayerBookAnglican:

Well, I could list dozens... I'm a bit "off" - peeved at the world this week for some reason....

Here are a few of my "most despised" hymns (words and tunes both): "In My Heart There Rings A Melody" - Heart Melody; "Since Jesus Came Into My Heart" - McDaniel; "I Will Sing The Wondrous Story" - Wondrous Story; "I Will Sing Of My Redeemer" - My Redeemer; LLove Lifted Me" - Safety; "Heaven Came Down" - Heaven Came Down; "...any other pietistic protestant drivel..." insert tiring tune here; Anything Gaither or if Tom Fettke touched it.

I love the Anglican Hymnal I now use, the 1938 Book of Common Praise with the 1964 Chant Appendix by Healey Willan. Marvelous lyrics and tunes - a lifetime of glorious hymn singing. Theological depth and language that elevates the mind and spirit.

Woah there, PBA, ye be headin in to the outskirts tent revival territory! This be holy ground, all you need to name now is "In the Garden," "Only Believe", and "Revive me Again" and I'd be a wee bit concernened!

Although my mother has expressed her dislike of "Onward Christian Soldiers". She finds the tune "Rather Tacky".

As for me, if I hear Southwell one more time I'm going to need the collection plate for something other than money!

jimmywilliams:

Here I am Lord ....It is I Lord ... who was bringing up three very lovely girls...  

LOL! I've done that, quietly, as prelude.

Another one is that droning chorus "He is Lord". "He is Lord, He is Lord.  He is risen from the dead and He is Lord.  Ev'ry Kee shall bow...on my Old Kentucky Home..."

The late John W Peterson wrote a particularly annoying gospel hymn "Coming again".  This piece is basically the Skater's Waltz.

 This morning the pastor that had filled in for a few weeks was leaving and I had to drone through a benediction  piece that was sentimental words set to "Edelweiss".   I really had to fight the urge to intro it with "Lonely Goatherd" and use "So Long Farewell" as postlude.

As for "Onward Christian Soldiers" having a "tacky" tune, Sir Arthur Sullivan would be rolling over in his grave (though Mr. Gilbert would probably be delighted to agree).

hillgreen2:

...ugh Mr. Gilbert would probably be delighted to agree...

Wouldn't count on that.  "Mr. Gilbert" had no ear for music whatsoever.  Furthermore he was basically agnostic, and if he ever objected to Onward Christian Soldiers, well someone would have fed him that information when he was on the "outs" with Sullivan. 

But how times change.  I think Onward one of the great protestant hymns.  It moves me so much... NEH suggests leaving out the second verse of Baring-Gould's poem, the Christian Scientists never included it in the first place! 
 

hillgreen2, I'd be careful with that song set to "Edelweiss"--the composer has been known to sue churches for taking his tune without permission.  The UMC was using it back in the 80s and was strongly told to cease and desist.

I, too, am tired of "Here I Am, Lord"--my church uses it much too often.

I am interested in the discussion of the difference between hymns and gospel songs.  What do you mean by "through composed"?  That the work does not have multiple stanzas that repeat the same melody and/or harmonization?  That would appear to me to be a form of snobbishness.  Some of Charles Wesley's wonderful texts had up to 16 stanzas--it would take a fantastic composer to handle them with no repetition.

I am not very familiar with the Anglican hymnody--they sing some of the same texts to wildly different tunes to what we use here in the Colonies, though.  I find some of them rather refreshing--one does tire of the same old ones from time to time.  (My recent exposure to "Sagina" is an example.)  I recently toured the British Isles and purchased a few CDs of hymns by British choirs--I have thoroughly enjoyed hearing some familiar texts set to markedly different tunes than are used here.  John Wesley, of course, did not encourage using only a fixed tune for particular texts, such as is the practice over here.  I often wish that his policies had been more closely followed in the UMC.

Someone posted a dislike for "I, I, I, me, me, me" hymns (or would they be "gospel songs"?).  A few versions back the UMC purged its hymnal of all such "personal salvation" hymns and it was a big mistake.  There are times in people's lives when they need the comfort such texts afford.  While I agree that they should not be overused, they do have a purpose and should be available.

I apologize for the branch into texts--this thread was originally about tunes.

David