The Organ Forum

Thanks, soundboarddude--I never thought of some of those tricks!

The young lady previously mentioned also enjoyed the bass notes of the 16-foot reeds because they, in her words, "sound like farts."

Whatever works . . .

MenchenStimme:

... The young lady previously mentioned also enjoyed the bass notes of the 16-foot reeds because they, in her words, "sound like farts." ...

That's awesome!  I've been really surprised at how easily adults get pulled into conversations on the organ (well, some, not all adults).  It usually starts out with me saying (with my innervoice) "Oh, shoot, I brought up the organ again ..."  Then people just start asking questions.

It's also interesting ... last night I brought up that our new organ would have the big 32' pipes in the pedal and some big reeds on the manuals.  One woman was horrified.  She said the old organ was too loud (when a prior organist played - Full bore all the time).  I said that it was possible to use the big stops without the congregation being assulted by sound.  After that, she loved the idea of 32' stops and the big reeds.

I guess it is true ... changing attitudes one person at a time.

soundboarddude:

Now, with that being said, I do not enjoy contemporay music in church. I don't think it should be used during worship services. Maybe outside in the parking lot during a church picnic, yes. But not inside the sanctuary when we're trying to worship!

Why?

NYCFarmboy:

I'm very happy to see the praise band fad is passing.. after a while praisebands just end up being meaningless other than what they are: entertainment disguised as religion.

An unenlightened, and inaccurate, opinion. But an opinion nonetheless. I would imagine it is based on hearing some poorly done contemporary services. Imagine someone who knows nothing BUT contemporary worship walking into a traditional service with a "blue haired old lady" type organist. They would probably think traditional worship is horrible. But that would be an opinion based on too small of a sample size.

Soundboarddude, MenchenStimme, NYC Farmboy I couldn't agree with you guys more.

From my own personal experience in the churches I have been in, the expectation has been that if they bring in the contemporary, the pews will fill up. Bear in mind though, I have also found that many people have different ideas on what they think defines "contemporary," and I have yet to meet people that all share the same definition.

While I support all musical endeavours at the church, my primary goals are to show people how magnificent the organ is, to do my best as an organist and choir director, plant musical seeds in the young people and get them to participate musically in the service, and to make the traditional things as irresistible as possible. There are so many ways one can do this, and I know it works because the people in the pews always come after the postlude to talk to me about how much they like it, and how pleasantly surprised they are. I've even had the younger members tell me that they never knew the organ could do the things they hear. So in short, it's up to us ladies and gentlemen!

Give organ tours, put interesting tid bits in the church bulletin about the organ, use all the bells and whistles (I have antiphonal chimes - I like it when they all turn their heads back wondering where it's coming from - I got them interested in the instrument), support Pipe Organ Encounters (POE), start a POE in your own church, and always work on improving yourself. Be a leader.

 

My Church has traditionally been a praise band Church (which I fill in with from time to time). The Church recently purchased a new building that came with an Allen organ which I play every Sunday, even along with the band, and it works out nicely. In all likelihood we will install a pipe organ there some day when the Allen gets tired.


Any kind of music can be spiritually bankrupt if it is made an idol of - traditional or contemporary.

- N

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Like to read about pipe organ parts? - http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/organfixers/

soundboarddude:

MenchenStimme, hey now, there's nothing wrong with the Zymbelstern. That's my favourite stop!

Slightly off topic from the topic of "praise bands," but still relating to sharing the organ: You can also do all sorts of things with an organ to show off how fun it can be. For example, making a train by using an 8' flute, playing block chords in the lower ends for the sound of the train, and diminished chords for the train whistle. I've also been told you can do a donkey sound with a krummorne, but couldn't ever figure out how...

I always think it's neat to get to look at a rank while it's playing, like looking at the harmonic flute and listening to it play a few notes. Always interesting!

Too many times, the organ sounds like a funeral dirge in church.  If we organists want to turn this around, it is going to take EXCELLENCE in playing, and interesting music.  If more people understood how breathtaking  an organ CAN sound in a church, we wouldn't need to have this discussion.  But when people playing the organ in a church can barely play, then few are going to love organ music.

Bill

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I am NOT a PC programmer. I program on Mainframe computers!

Non omnes qui habemt citharam sunt citharoedi

Generally, Praise Bands and Organ/Choirs are pretty poor and amateurish in churches.   If you are looking for real musical quality look elsewhere.

Choirmaster, would you mind expanding on that? I'm not quite sure what you mean...

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The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. - Johann Sebastian Bach
Baylor University School of Music

I could not agree more with Bill aka radagast about organ dirges.  I grew up in a Catholic parish with a really bad organ and an little old lady organist playing dirges.  It was hideous.  Somehow, even as a child, I knew that it was not suppose to be this way.  Now, as the non-stipendiary assistand organist at my current Catholic parish (about a mile from the one where I grew up), I bend over backward to do exactly what Bill is suggesting, as does our professional music director/organist.  People are responding.  Our attendance has increased, albeit moderately, since we installed the organ.  Of course, it helps to have gone from a mediocre 2/16 to an excellent 3/72.  We were fortunate enough to be able to install the organ first and then show everyone how wonderful it could sound.

If more professional musicians took up the organ as an instrument and/or were willing to set-up instrumental ensembles and were employed in churches the general standards would be a lot higher.  People are happy to employ a professional minister. If churches adopted a similar attitude to employing a full-time professional musician then the musical opportunities and development would very much improve the music within the worship.

Choirmaster:

If more professional musicians took up the organ as an instrument and/or were willing to set-up instrumental ensembles and were employed in churches the general standards would be a lot higher.  People are happy to employ a professional minister. If churches adopted a similar attitude to employing a full-time professional musician then the musical opportunities and development would very much improve the music within the worship.

The attitude of many churches is that the musicians are "volunteering" their services to the Lord and the church.  I came up with an idea that churches could use to "pay" musicians without any cost to them.  The church could give a musician a official "salary", which would automatically be given back to the church in an "donation".  The result it that the church would give the musician a tax receipt for the "donation" which could be used to reduce the musician's taxes.  I don't know if it's legal.  Some may think it's unethical.  I don't.  The musician is providing a real service for the tax credit.

The response I got was that Sunday School teachers aren't paid a salary either.  Well, all but one of the musicians in my church provide their own instruments and they cost money to buy and repair.

Bill

 

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I am NOT a PC programmer. I program on Mainframe computers!

Non omnes qui habemt citharam sunt citharoedi

I too could not agree more with radagast about organ dirges. I've always maintained that with a few exceptions, if someone does not like the organ it is usually because of the person at the console and not the organ itself.

I've also had experieces such as the one mentioned by MenchenStimme. I started in an RC church. The priests were wonderful, supportive, and let me practice almost anytime I wanted. But, there were 5 masses on a Sunday and they all had different organists. There was only one organist that came from England who was a real organist and he was awesome. He was also my teacher. The others were as MenchenStimme said little old ladies playing dirges. One "organist" used full organ all the time, played only on the swell, and used the swell expression pedal liberally. I substituted for all of them when needed, but I eventually wanted a church of my own as an organist so I went to the Anglican church and the rest is all history as they say.

 

 

 

 

 

This is an interesting thread to read.  As I only play in traditional Anglican churches, I have not had to deal with praise bands and such.  (Nothing against them, it's just not for me.)

Reedguy, I'm curious about your use of the word "Anglican".  (I assume you're US based.)  Here in the UK it means any "Church of England", but am I correct in saying in the US it refers to either a high-Episcopal or Anglo-Catholic church?  Does that describe the church you play at? 

Cheers  

I've always found it fascinating how churches decide who gets paid and who doesn't.  For instance ... the choir director gets paid for being there on Sunday but not the choir.  Both spend equal amounts of time working (outside of the time to research new music which isn't really significant).  An organist gets paid but none of the contemporary music team does.  A pastor gets paid but the laity doesn't get a stipend for subbing in.

I've come to conclude that like anything else ... payroll depends on how easy it is to replace someone.  If you teach Sunday school, sing in the choir, et cetera ... you are a volunteer because you are not irreplaceable.  As an organist ... you should be paid as finding a competent one is not always easy.  Churches should be willing to spend even more if they can get ahold of a good one.