The Organ Forum

I've heard it (and sung it) different ways in professional choirs and recordings.

 

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The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. - Johann Sebastian Bach
Baylor University School of Music

Ex-sell-sees is the less popular, but more correct and more classical version.

Sees should actually sound more like cease.

The correct answer is... none of the above. 

It also depends on if the composition uses ecclesiastical Latin, German Latin, etc.  It is also important to note that sung Latin is different from spoken Latin.

For vocal works I use ek-chel-cease; for German Latin I use ek-cell-cease. 

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Soubasse32

What a great topic, this always comes up at choir practice.

No one seems to know, and each has their own differing view on how it should be pronounced so we just settle on "eks-chell-sis" for uniformity.

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Currently own:
ALLEN TC-3S (#42904 - 3rd Feb 1971) with Sequential Capture System

Speakers:
x1 Model 100 Gyro Cabinet
x1 Model 105 Cabinet
x3 Model 108 Cabinet

"Egg-shell-cease" is what we were taught to say in college choir, and that's what I've gone by as a choir director. But I suppose there haven't been any genuine native Latin speakers for 1500 years, so who knows?

John

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Rodgers 890 at church.
Baldwin D422 at home.
Scads of old organs in the shop! H E L P !!!

Sir Soubasse is most correct from what I've heard and studied.  Ann Jones and Robert Shaw used this pronunciation for their choral groups.  The "egg" analogy was used for a time, but is now considered less professional and correct. 

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Holtkamp/Parkey pipe organ
Galanti Praeludium home instrument

Indeed; SB32 has done it again.

I do prefer his ek-cell-cease to his ek-chel-cease.

Yes, the most recent thinking on the topic reveals that the "egg" has gone rotten. 

Bad too, is the old egg's shell since chel (or cel) is more correctly used.

I use ek instead of ex because it is much less fussy for singers and it communicates the proper pronunciation just as effectively.

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Soubasse32

I voted for "egg-shell-sees (cease)" because that is the way my choral directors here want it pronounced.  My personal favorite is "eks-chel-cease" for sung Latin.  And according to my Latin I teacher (in 1951), Mrs. Bennett, it would have been "eks-kel-cease" in spoken Latin.  (But we also said "Keye-sahr" for "Caesar" and "Waynee, Weedee, Weekee" for what "Keye-sahr" said.    We also pronounced all the initial "H" letters, based on the idea that Latin was perfectly phonetic and there were no silent letters.  Logic also indicates that "H"s would be pronounced whereever they occurred (not as part of a digraph) because it's a lot easier to say an "h" than it is to utter a glottal stop between adjacent vowels, and people are basically lazy.

We here in Texas are saddled with the (fairly) recent interpretations by Lloyd Pfautsch, with whom I disagree constantly.  His pronouncements are contrary to all that I had been taught in the 40 years before I came to Texas.  What makes him an expert?  Did he find some old Romans living somewhere to ask?  I've listened to many recordings of choirs in Europe singing Latin and they have been singing it their way for hundreds of years--why are they suddenly wrong?

(Rant off)

David

And according to my Latin I teacher (in 1951), Mrs. Bennett, it would have been "eks-kel-cease" in spoken Latin.

Mrs. Bennett is/was both well-informed and wise. 

yup...hard vowels, ex-kell-sees

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Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control

Austin --  ex-kell-sees???  Can you imagine a choir singing that? But then, we modify a lot of English words for singing, as well.

David, since I'm in a state adjoining Texas, perhaps your choral people were influenced by some of the same people as mine.

John

 

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Rodgers 890 at church.
Baldwin D422 at home.
Scads of old organs in the shop! H E L P !!!

Well, that is the correct pronunciation (speaking of pronunciation, I'm getting flashes of Singing in the Rain...I ceaan't steaan it...). Some of the words that choirs sing are pretty ridiculous. Besides, church latin always gets me, the never get the v's right (they are supposed to sound like w's) and they tend to get the ae dipthong wrong, making it a long a, instead of a long i.

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Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control

You are so right, Austin!  My respects to you and your Latin teacher!

Of course, this whole thing makes me feel a bit like Henry Higgins, Colonel Pickering and Eliza Dolittle (sp?).

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Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control