The Organ Forum

Quite a lot of the time, I find I am having to cut pieces of music short at the end of a church service because they are always too long. Would anybody consider this as not right at all? The main reason is that I'd feel so stupid if I was still playing and everybody had gone home!

I have of course been trying to play some shorter bits of music but then there is only so much you can do over and over again before people start recognising everything, and I can't seem to find anything that is uplifting and lively and short at the same time.

 

Jezza

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"If you can't get the orchestra any louder, add the organ"

I do this all the time; so I hope that it is alright.

Just two Sundays ago my postlude was the last page and a half of Bach's F-Major Toccata.  The church still emptied before I finished.

Oh well . . .

I find these posts very surprising and perhaps a little unsettling.  Our congregation has a lot of people who actually stay in the Sanctuary until the organist finishes the Postlude and then applauds.  Some of them are pretty long, too.  (Of course, my church has 3 Sunday morning services in that building and if the Postlude lasts too long the organist doesn't get a break between it and the Prelude for the following service.)

Maybe my church has more organ music enthusiasts than yours do.

David

In an RC church (that's Roman Catholic, not arsey; LOL!), when the celebrant says "The Mass is ended, go in peace." he may as well have said "FIRE, everybody run!"  But seriously:  Most of the congregation stays for at least the first verse of the closing hymn and the majority for the second verse.  But to 97% of them, the postlude is exit music.  And the few who remain are often conversing in a loud voice, shouting at each other to be heard over the organ.  Rather Philistine, actually.  Makes me wonder if it is called the Roman church because the parishioners are more interested in bread and circuses.

By the way, David, our Schantz is not unlike your Klais in size and specification.

 

Actually I've discovered that's not the case at my local cathedral (I'm RC too).  At the daily mass people stay until the last hymn is done.  EVERYONE.  I even have to play quiet for about 20-30 minutes afterwards to practice because there's still people praying!  It's very nice actually.

 

However, I've noticed that whenever an organist at my old church playing a loud and rambunctious exit song, the church would empty out MUCH quicker! 

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'It isn't that difficult. All one has to do is press all the right keys at the right time and the organ plays itself.'
Yeah RIGHT.

There is almost always a gathering of listeners (including a portion of the choir) who remain following Sunday services.  Although I must contend with animated conversations between some of the parishioners I always get a polite round of applause after I finish.

I always try to play the entire piece, but I feel the courtesy goes both ways: I choose pieces that are not too long, so folks don't feel obliged to stay when they could be outside socializing or having lunch.

It brings to mind the Dubois Toccata in G - it goes on for pages and pages, and has repeats too.  As I feel the 'point' of the piece seems to occur after the first few measures why belabor it?  I don't play this piece very often, but I have no hesitation in cutting parts of it.

On the other hand, I would not truncate a masterpiece such as a Bach or Franck work.

If I have a longer piece I'll tend to play it as a Prelude.

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Soubasse32

MenschenStimme, I recently went to an organ recital at Wilshire Baptist Church here in Dallas and heard their fairly new (2004) Schantz Opus 2234 instrument.  It was very impressive!  I'm sure you are well-served by your Schantz.  If "our" organs are similar in size, they are both eclipsed by the Opus 2234.

David

I play at an RC Church and find that about 98% people stay until the end of the final hymn. Our parish priests are pretty good in that for a four verse hymn for example, they'll stay at the altar until about 2.5 verses have past before leaving - that way people stay. If its an extremely long hymn, like "For all the Saints", then we'll do (much to my dislike) the first two and last two verses. I think this is very confusing for the congregation and if I had my way it would be four consecutive verses...anyway.

We had one priest who pratically ran out of the church as soon as the final hymn started - suffice to say that a lot of people started to leave during the final hymn.

As for after service music, I find that about maybe 10-15% of the congregation intentionally stay, and the rest have either left the Church or are on their way out. Something like Dubois Toccata in G is far too long and I'd never play the complete thing, so I generally do the final section (last four pages if you're using Schirmer's Edt). If its Bach, then I won't cut it short - its too difficult to try and alter Bach and keep it sounding seemless> If the Bach piece has repeats and its very long, then I'll do the obvious and omit repeats.

We have no clapping in our Church, the parish priest deems it very inappropriate. If its weddings, then he grits his teeth, otherwise no clapping at all.

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Currently own:
ALLEN TC-3S (#42904 - 3rd Feb 1971) with Sequential Capture System

Speakers:
x1 Model 100 Gyro Cabinet
x1 Model 105 Cabinet
x3 Model 108 Cabinet

If your not making it problematic (like a service following) then why stop playing? I mean, it isn't as if you are forcing people to stay.

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Expert in non-working solutions

nullogik:

We have no clapping in our Church, the parish priest deems it very inappropriate. If its weddings, then he grits his teeth, otherwise no clapping at all.

I'm not one for debating theological issues but as a colleague said to me: "clapping is mentioned in the Bible, so it is not inappropriate during a church service."

My church discourages clapping during the service but they feel the Postlude follows the conclusion of the service; thus any applause that happens is outside the context of the service.  The clergy also understand that it is the congregation's heartfelt expression of thanks towards their hard-working organist.

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Soubasse32

Every Lutheran church service I've ever played in or participated in has followed the same practice: if there is a closing hymn (more of the time there is), it is usually on the short side, and it is followed by some announcements.  THEN, the participants leave.

The Allen organ I play at church now has a rudimentary recorder built into it; I commonly use it for the postlude.  Of course, that significantly complicates the idea of shortening anything!  So, I use a postlude that's "about" long enough.  If the attendance is low, the music will "outlast" the participants; if we are blessed with an unusually high attendance, well, that's a good problem to have!

The thought of shortening the postlude brings to mind an experience I had, away from my home church, a couple of years ago.  I was playing Bach's Great Fugue in g minor for the postlude ("What's the definition of a fugue?"  "It's a piece of music where the parts come in one by one, and the people leave two by two."), and the organ failed just before the last statement of the fugal theme.  Suddenly, nothing.  Total silence.  An excruciatingly "un-artful" truncation of an extraordinary masterpiece!  Ten minutes later, the organ worked normally again.  No explanation.  That's the only time in my life that I have ever shortened a fugue!

Next time you think of shortening music:

 

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Soubasse32

Shouldn't that be in the Grease Pit?

Lol!

One church I sometimes play at ALWAYS applaud me and the end, and it's bloody embarissing! I'm sure they wouldn't if it was another organist...

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"If you can't get the orchestra any louder, add the organ"

It depends upon  the church, at the CS church I go to on occasion (the one in Cleveland Heights, with the Holtkamp/Hillgreen-Lane) about 80-90% of the people stay in the auditorium until the end of the postlude, and of those who remain everyone applauds, I'm not sure if they are applauding the organist for the prelude, offertory piece, accompaniment of the soloist and the postlude and the three hymns, or if it is just the postlude they are applauding, but in any case at that church almost everyone stays for the postlude and applauds at its conclusion. At my mother's church, where there is no organ, nobody stays in the sanctuary for the postlude and no one applauds (I think that this may be due in part to the fact that the postlude is usually some kind of variation on the closing hymn, and not particularly interesting variations, think background music).

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Once you can tie your arms into a pretzel and your legs into a knot, you've got it under control