The Organ Forum

Yesterday we had an organ party at which about 40 amateur and professional organists attended for an open console party. The question of praise bands came up. My organ builder friend saya that the praise band fad has peaked and churches are beginning to move back toward more traditional services using organ music. He confirms the trend away from the very restricive baroque organs and performance practice that has been the trend of the past.

One church (classical) organist came with his family. His mother-in-law observed that my organ sounded so much better than the tracker he plays in church. Naturally I am very pleased with her comment. It looks like change is in the wind and maybe the trend away from organ music in church may be changing. There are a number of new concert hall organs being installed. I hope that these are more versatile and have a more pleasing tone than the style demanded by organists of the past 30 years or so.

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Style D Wurlitzer Pipe Organ
http://www.bluemoonwalkinghorses.com/Style_D_Description5_rev2.html

AllanP:

It looks like change is in the wind

Yes, and that wind is on higher pressure.

Your post actually brings up two very interesting (but very different) topics.

I will be overjoyed when the praise band phenomenon passes, but I think it might be premature to celebrate; unfortunately, there seem to be no signs of the trend reversing in my part of the country... just the opposite.

All of the people who feel passionately about praise music are just as loath to be replaced by organ music.  If a church reverts to classical music, then the 'band' must go somewhere else - sometimes they end up at a 'classical' church.  And the cycle starts again.

Just yesterday I heard about one of these in my neck of the woods - a church with an gorgeous 'artsy' new pipe organ (and fantastic, genius of a player) seems on the verge of losing it all.  The new minister made no bones about the need to 'clean house', during the sermon.  Most of the planned choral music was cancelled that morning, and replaced by the minister's songs (accompanied by tambourine shaking).  How tacky, divisive, and insensitive!    Half of the congregation went home in shock (including the assistant organist, in tears).

That assistant organist was recently sacked from another church due to the exact same situation, so has now been twice traumatized.

OK, not every situation is as dramatic as that, but the subject is rather a sore spot with me - especially as my colleagues are dropping like flies.

Back to your other, happier observation:

It seems that concert halls are putting in LOUDER organs.  This may also be a passing fad, but it seems that orchestras are seeking to become ever louder.  Those organizations which can afford a new pipe organ seem to be seeking those which can compete with the full orchestra.  Its a whole lot easier to do that with high pressure reeds than it is with squeaking Zimbel mixtures!

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Soubasse32

soubasse32:

Just yesterday I heard about one of these in my neck of the woods - a church with an gorgeous 'artsy' new pipe organ (and fantastic, genius of a player) seems on the verge of losing it all.  The new minister made no bones about the need to 'clean house', during the sermon.  Most of the planned choral music was cancelled that morning, and replaced by the minister's songs (accompanied by tambourine shaking).  How tacky, divisive, and insensitive!    Half of the congregation went home in shock (including the assistant organist, in tears).

That assistant organist was recently sacked from another church due to the exact same situation, so has now been twice traumatized.

Let us hope then, that the congregation remembers that the pastor, while the leader of the flock, is still their employee :o)  Although a pastor can exert significant influence (and many times should) ... he isn't the church in and of himself.  If the congregation wants their organ kept in the center they need to make sure it happens.  The pastor's job is to support the ministry of the church.  Not to decide who gets to worship and how.  That is the congregation's (and its leadership) job.

I know of one church here in Ohio that had a pastor that couldn't get it through his head that he wasn't God.  Eventually the congregation changed the locks and didn't give him a key.  He was relocated to another congregation. :o)

soubasse32:

AllanP:

It looks like change is in the wind

Yes, and that wind is on higher pressure.

Your post actually brings up two very interesting (but very different) topics.

I will be overjoyed when the praise band phenomenon passes, but I think it might be premature to celebrate; unfortunately, there seem to be no signs of the trend reversing in my part of the country... just the opposite.

All of the people who feel passionately about praise music are just as loath to be replaced by organ music.  If a church reverts to classical music, then the 'band' must go somewhere else - sometimes they end up at a 'classical' church.  And the cycle starts again.

 

 

Human beings tend to go to extremes.  Balance occurs when wild swings of the pendulum become less radical.  The best answer is BALANCE.  A blended music program is respectful to all concerned.  I have a constant battle in my church about music during altar prayer.  It should be quiet and contemplative.  And what better for that than an organ?  I also have a hard time explaining why getting pipe organ sounds from an electronic keyboard (synthesizer) is NOT the same as having a dedicated instrument.  They just don't get it.

The late Tom Hazleton reportedly said something to the effect that more people have come to the Lord from celestes and voxes than from an electric guitar.

I have maintained that the swing is starting to return in favor of the organ again in churches and I am glad to see others seeing the same thing.

 

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I am NOT a PC programmer. I program on Mainframe computers!

Non omnes qui habemt citharam sunt citharoedi

The use of contemporary/popular music in church is not a fad. It isn't going a way. It's our decision whether it's going to be a good or bad thing. I'm working on making it a good thing.

I am indeed thankful that at our church, St. Mark UMC on histroic Peachtree Street in midtown Atlanta, has stayed with the big Skinner and in the past two years has even purchased  a new 16 rank Chapel organ.  The closest we ever get (in the past 12 years) to a praise band is a drummer during a one month summer period we call "camp meeting month".  Singing the old gospels, wearing casual clothes seem to lend it'self to the introduction of a drum set.  Praise the Lord!!!!!

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"The Organ is in truth the grandest, the most daring,
the most magnificent of all instruments invented by human genius."

Very good points by all.

Ahhh, Soubasse32 sadly I too know what it is like to work with such a minister. I had to remind myself often to not allow someone's nastiness get the better of me and take away my love of music and from sharing that joy with others. Naturally, I left that position.

I know of someone who loves the traditional. Because of the sweeping changes in her denomination, she no longer feels at home with them. She feels lost and hurt to say the least. So much for their talk of being "inclusive." There is obviously no room in their denomination for that young lady and other like-minded people. I can't imagine what she must be going through to see the church you grew up in change that radically. To lose a faith home. Sometimes I feel that the laity need to take a stand, after all, we are the church are we not? It does not solely belong to the clergy.

In these parts, I see no evidence that the praise band phenomenon is fading. I won't exacly miss it if it does ever fade away. The pews are getting empty and those who are in them are getting older. Churches are getting desparate, so much so, that they will try almost anything to reverse the trend. Usually it is us organists, that are the prime target. Heaven forbid they consider other possibilities for this problem.

The solution, or the compromise at this point at least is blended worship I think. Although I must admit, I feel right at home with tradition, and I'm from the younger generation. Then again, I was blessed with being brought up to appreciate that.

Bombarde32 makes a most vaild point that the Minister is an employee and the church belongs to the congregation and not to the minister.  I know in my part of the world that if a priest or minister stirs the pot too much they are re-assigned.  The praise bands around here seem to be alive and well in the Protestant church seen and sparse in the Catholic church but there are a few.  The United church up here is suffering bad and not even the finest tuned praise band is bringing people back.  They do work well however if they find the right neighborhood church that can sustain them with both clergy and congregation.  Thats what appears to be the situation here. 

As for concert hall organs ..... the only one around here (Toronto) has the biggest electric toaster installed in there that I've ever heard.  Such a shame.  . 

I'm going to admit that I enjoy contemporary music. I pretty much enjoy all types of music (with a few exceptions).

Now, with that being said, I do not enjoy contemporay music in church. I don't think it should be used during worship services. Maybe outside in the parking lot during a church picnic, yes. But not inside the sanctuary when we're trying to worship!

I, unfortunantly, was put in a place where most people like contemporary music. Hardly any of the churches locally have organs (much less nice pipe organs), and most of the local churches use drumsets and guitars. Thus, I'm forced to go on a bit of a drive to get to churches that are traditional, and thank goodness I found St. Matthias'!

I did want to share this article that someone sent me concerning all of this. And thankfully, this is happening all in my area!

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/021806dnrellakepointe.1fb9edae.html

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The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. - Johann Sebastian Bach
Baylor University School of Music

An interesting and well written little piece.

I would like to point out the obvious that if we don't work on reaching out and church attendance continues to shrink then this debate is of course pointless.

The reality is that you have to look at the area you are in.  You have to look at your church and your community and find out what needs are/aren't being met.  You can't simply say "go contemporary and our church will grow" any more than you can say "buy some hymnals and everyone will have more meaningful worship."  You may be in an area that simply doesn't have the population to support 2 services so you do a blended worship if needed to retain/attract the youth.  You may be in an area that has a plethora of contemporary churches.  In that case you might fulfill a niche with traditional (or "classic") worship.

I maintain my position that when done properly ... neither service is superior in terms of quality of worship (quality of music we can argue on forever).  You just have to identify what the needs are that are and aren't being met.  That way you don't leave people who are having their needs met in the dust.  But you don't ignore those that need something different.

I also wonder ... is the pipe organ one of those things that people just don't realize how good they've got it until it's gone?  Yeah, the band is fun but after awhile you start remembering how enjoyable the organ and hymns are too.

Lastly ... for those of you familiar with Jars of Clay ... they released an album (Redemption Song) and it is all hymn work.  I believe the melodies are roughly unchanged.  Just with a band as the musical backdrop.

I also wonder ... is the pipe organ one of those things that people just don't realize how good they've got it until it's gone?  Yeah, the band is fun but after awhile you start remembering how enjoyable the organ and hymns are too.

I personally believe that the pipe organ itself isn't fully appreciated. I believe that it can't be fully appreciated until it is studied. Until more people begin to study the organ and take organ lessons, it will continue to be the musty old thing in the back of some churches.

Thus, in my opinion, we, as organists, have the ability to make that pendulum swing faster, and hopefully stay on the right side for good! Make friends with the organ. Show off the organ, and let people play on it. Do organ demonstrations and let people look at the pipes. Explain how it all works. Give demonstrations to sunday school and VBS classes and target younger people. Then, hopefully someday, the organ will be used with more pride and more people will enjoy hearing the works of the great masters, such as Bach.

...until then, the organ will remain the "big piano-thing with tubes"

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The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. - Johann Sebastian Bach
Baylor University School of Music

I'm very happy to see the praise band fad is passing..

after a while praisebands just end up being meaningless other than what they are: entertainment disguised as religion.

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www.nycfarmboy.com
www.reuter822.com

Hey, soundboarddude--some good ideas!  I sat at the console two Sunday afternoons ago with a young lady (about 9 years old?) and her step-dad and demonstrated our Schantz 3/72.  She was more interested in making noise, but dad was fascinated with the sheer magnitude and complexity of it all.  They both liked the chimes and zimbelstern the best--but that's okay for starters.  I also gave them a tour of the chambers, for which her mom joined us.  My only caveat is that some (most?) folks do not realize that pipes are musical instruments and should not be fondled.  Some of our choir members even fall into the category of fondlers--that is, until I catch them doing it.  Yet, few people would dream of walking into someone's living room and strumming the strings in their piano.  Oh well, one step at a time.  One could take the Zen approach:  "What is the sound of $1 million singing?"

MenchenStimme, hey now, there's nothing wrong with the Zymbelstern. That's my favourite stop!

Slightly off topic from the topic of "praise bands," but still relating to sharing the organ: You can also do all sorts of things with an organ to show off how fun it can be. For example, making a train by using an 8' flute, playing block chords in the lower ends for the sound of the train, and diminished chords for the train whistle. I've also been told you can do a donkey sound with a krummorne, but couldn't ever figure out how...

I always think it's neat to get to look at a rank while it's playing, like looking at the harmonic flute and listening to it play a few notes. Always interesting!

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The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. - Johann Sebastian Bach
Baylor University School of Music

soundboarddude:

I did want to share this article that someone sent me concerning all of this. And thankfully, this is happening all in my area!

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/021806dnrellakepointe.1fb9edae.html

Thank you for the link.  I've sent it to quite a few folk.  Maybe there is hope for the future!

Lawrence